http://www.electriciantalk.com Open electrical discussion. en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:14:57 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.electriciantalk.com/images/misc/rss.jpg http://www.electriciantalk.com http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/new-twist-10065/ Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:57:05 GMT A friend of mine is looking for a whole house surge suppressor. His power company is offering one for a fee ($250.00) and a monthly charge. I know... A friend of mine is looking for a whole house surge suppressor. His power company is offering one for a fee ($250.00) and a monthly charge. I know you can buy them on the open market and install them. But a monthly charge? It marketed for services up to 400 amp with a $100,000 connected equipment warranty. He is asking me if it's a good deal or a rip off. ]]> General Electrical Discussion John Valdes http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/new-twist-10065/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/drive-lines-big-screen-tv-10063/ Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:02:10 GMT In the olden days, we used to call "drive lines" the horizontal line that would slowly move down the TV screen and it was usually due to a noisy neutral. Does anybody know of a test device which is good for measuring noise on the neutral? I used to use an oscilloscope, but that was a long time ago.

Anyway, the HO told me the cable folks are grounded to the meter socket which tells me they aren't grounded at all, but the cable guys furnished alternative power from their van and the drive line went away, thus, the drive line is due to the house power and not their cable system.

I'm going to look at it right now. ]]> General Electrical Discussion waco http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/drive-lines-big-screen-tv-10063/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/breakers-designed-internally-trip-10055/ Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:01:11 GMT Had a 'discussion' with my boss today. He told a customer who had a piece of duck-tape over a breaker on the 'ON' position that the tape could cause the breaker to not trip if a short or overload happened. When we were alone I told him that a circuit breaker will internally trip even if the handle is obstructed. He's saying that's a bunch of BS and that when he was wiring fire-alarm control panels you would have to put a breaker lock and padlock on a breaker to keep it from tripping. I asked him what if you had a short?, it would burn up the equipment and his response was that's just what he was told to do. Supposedly the jobs were inspected and cleared by the city:blink:

So who's right, him or me? ]]> General Electrical Discussion Briancraig81 http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/breakers-designed-internally-trip-10055/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/anyone-ever-wire-cadmach-rotary-tablet-press-10053/ Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:37:39 GMT I was on my way to a job this morning when I got a call to go look at wiring a tablet press machine. Its a Cadmach Double sided press. I was in a... I was on my way to a job this morning when I got a call to go look at wiring a tablet press machine. Its a Cadmach Double sided press. I was in a rush and basically did a "drive by" site visit. I am wondering if the accessories for it get wired into the main unit or do they all need separate disconnects? The accessories are a vibro de duster, and a dust extractor. The room is considered class two div 2. Has anyone wired one of these...? ]]> General Electrical Discussion captkirk http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/anyone-ever-wire-cadmach-rotary-tablet-press-10053/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/sometimes-you-just-have-walk-away-10052/ Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:36:41 GMT So I'm doing this job at steel fabrication shop. The place is an electrical nightmare. Just about everything in the place is a disaster and needs to be fixed.

I'm replacing some outlets and I needed to look into the possibility of adding some more circuits to this particular area. I trace the conduit back to the main service which is a mid 70's vintage. I find the panel where the existing circuits are and notice they are on 30 amp single pole breakers. Then I notice nearly the whole panel is full of single pole 30 amp breakers that mostly go the office area. This just got really interesting. :blink:

Against better judgement I open up the trough above the panel which isn't screwed in but just pressed in place. The trough is completely packed. I mean, there's not even room for a #18 in that thing. :laughing: I see the sticks and cardboard stuffed in there, and then I notice that there's melted wires and burned wires and burdy's with two layers of tape on them. The panel is connected to the trough via a two-inch offset nipple that has been filled beyond it's capacity by at least 1000%.

I put the trough cover back on and decided I wasn't going to try adding any more circuits. :) ]]> General Electrical Discussion Peter D http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/sometimes-you-just-have-walk-away-10052/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/retrofit-outdoor-motion-sensor-10039/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:06:27 GMT Hello,

can you get an aftermarket motion sensor for outdoor use?

I don't want to replace a big old lamp, rather find a small (black?) sensor.

Can anyone help?

Cheers

RT ]]> General Electrical Discussion randytrouserman http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/retrofit-outdoor-motion-sensor-10039/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/something-think-about-while-waiting-inspector-10038/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:21:29 GMT Image:...

Minute mysteries

A friend of mine, let's call him C*, introduced me to the concept of minute mysteries on a weekend trip to Maine, and I've been hooked ever since.
The object of minute mysteries (aka lateral thinking puzzles) is for you to unravel the mystery, based on very limited and somewhat ambiguous clues. You are given a scenario (usually involving a death of some sort), and you have to deduce what has happened. Someone must look at the solution so that you can ask them questions to try and figure it out. The questions have to be phrased so that the only possible answers are yes, no or not relevant. There is no limit to the number of questions, and it can be helpful to have multiple people working on the case.
Below are the mysteries: Click here for solutions
~1. In the middle of the ocean is a yacht. Several corpses are floating in the water nearby.
~2. Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice all live in the same house. Bob and Carol go out to a movie, and when they return, Alice is lying dead on the floor in a puddle of water and glass. It is obvious that Ted killed her but Ted is not prosecuted or severely punished.
~3. A woman comes home with a bag of groceries, gets the mail, and walks into the house. On the way to the kitchen, she goes through the living room and looks at her husband, who had blown his brains out. She then continues to the kitchen, puts away the groceries, and makes dinner.
~4. A body is discovered in a park in Chicago in the middle of summer. It has a fractured skull and many other broken bones, but the cause of death was hypothermia.
~5. A man lives on the twelfth floor of an apartment building. Every morning he wakes up, gets dressed, eats, goes to the elevator, takes it down to the lobby, and leaves the building for work. In the evening, he goes through the lobby to the elevator, and, if there is someone else in the elevator (or if it was raining that day) he goes back to his floor directly. However, if there is nobody else in the elevator and it hasn't rained, he goes to the 10th floor and walks up two flights of stairs to his room.
~6. A woman has incontrovertible proof in court that her husband was murdered by her sister. The judge declares, "This is the strangest case I've ever seen. Though it's a cut-and-dried case, this murderess cannot be punished."
~7. A man walks into a bar and asks for a drink. The bartender pulls out a gun and points it at him. The man says, "Thank you," and walks out.
~8. A man is in a returning from Switzerland by train. If he had been in a non-smoking car he would have died.
~9. Music stops and a woman dies.
~10. A man goes into a restaurant, orders albatross, eats one bite, and kills himself.
~11. A man is found hanging in a locked room with no furniture and a puddle of water under his feet.
~12. A man is dead in a puddle of blood and water on the floor of a locked room.
~13. A man is lying, dead, face down in the desert wearing a backpack.
~14. A man is lying face down, dead, in the desert, with a match near his outstretched hand. He is nude.
~15. A man is driving his car. He turns on the radio, listens for five minutes, turns around, goes home, and shoots his wife.
~16. A man driving his car turns on the radio. He then pulls over to the side of the road and shoots himself.
~17. A man is dead in a room with sawdust in one corner.
~18. A pile of sawdust, no net, a man dies.
~19. A rope breaks. A bell rings. A man dies.
~20. A man sitting on a park bench reads a newspaper article headlined "Death at Sea" and says, "A murder has been committed!"
~21. A man is riding a subway. He meets a one-armed man, who pulls out a gun and shoots him.
~22. Two women are talking. One goes into the bathroom, comes out five minutes later, and kills the other.
~23. A man is sitting in bed. He makes a phone call, says nothing, then goes to sleep.
~24. A man kills his wife, then goes inside his house and kills himself.
~25. Abel walks out of the ocean. Cain asks him who he is, and Abel answers. Cain kills Abel.
~26. Two men, one big and burly and the other short and thin, enter a bar. They both order identical drinks. The big one gulps his down and leaves; the other sips his slowly, then dies.
~27. Joe leaves his house, wearing a mask and carrying an empty sack. An hour later he returns. The sack is now full. He goes into a room and turns out the lights.
~28. A man takes a two week cruise to Mexico from the U.S. Shortly after he gets back, he takes a three day cruise which doesn't stop at any other ports. He stays in his cabin all the time on both cruises. As a result, he makes $250,000.
~29. Hans and Fritz are German spies during World War II. They try to enter America, posing as returning tourists. Hans is immediately arrested.
~30. Tim and Greg were talking. Tim said "The terror of flight". Greg said "The gloom of the grave". Greg was arrested.
~31. A man is found dead in his parked car. Tire tracks lead up to the car and away.
~32. A man dies in his own home.
~33. A woman in Paris in 1895 is waiting for her husband to come home. When he arrives, the house has burned to the ground and she's dead.
~34. A man gets onto an elevator. When the elevator stops, he knows his wife is dead.
~35. A policeman follows a burglar into a bar. When he enters the bar he finds a set of identical twins, dressed the same, with the loot between them. After several minutes he arrests one of the twins.
~36. She lost her job when she invited them to dinner.
~37. He couldn't find a chair, so he died.
~38. A car without a driver moves; a man dies.
~39. As I drive to work on my motorcycle, there is one corner which I go around at a certain speed whether it's rainy or sunny. If it's cloudy but not raining, however, I usually go faster.
~40. A woman throws something out a window and dies.
~41. An avid birdwatcher sees an unexpected bird. Soon he's dead.
~42. A man shoots himself, and dies.
~43. A man walks into a room, shoots, and kills himself.
~44. Adults are holding children, waiting their turn. The children are handed (one at a time, usually) to a man, who holds them while a woman shoots them. If the child is crying, the man tries to stop the crying before the child is shot.
~45. A man marries twenty women in his village but isn't charged with polygamy.
~46. There are two people dead in a cabin in the woods.
~47. A man pushes a car up to a hotel and realizes he's bankrupt.
~48. She said "I love you," and died.
~49. As a man jumps out of a window, he hears the telephone ring. He tries to stop himself, but can't.
~50. A man is found dead on the floor in the living room.
~51. A man is sitting in a train compartment. He sees a three-fingered hand through the compartment window, in the hallway of the train. He opens the compartment door and shoots the person with the three-fingered hand, but he goes free.
~52. There is a dead man lying in the desert next to a rock.
~53. A man is found dead in the arctic with a pack on his back.
~54. A man is lying dead in a room. There is a large pile of gold, jewels, and so on on the floor, a chandelier attached to the ceiling, and a large window through which rays are coming.
~55. A man goes home, turns out the light, and goes to bed. He wakes up the next morning, reads the newspaper, and kills himself.
~56. A raft carrying passengers took a trip down the Amazon. The raft capsized, and no survivors were found.
~57. A man is lying dead in a pool of blood and glass.
~58. A woman walks up to a door and knocks. Another woman answers the door. The woman outside kills the woman inside.
~59. There is blood on the ceiling of my bedroom.
~60. A woman goes into a convenience store to buy a can of Coke. She pays for it with a $20 bill and receives $20.05 in change. No mistake was made.
~61. A newspaper reported the following: "Yesterday, Jacques Dubois finished first in the walking race held in Paris. He walked 62,137 miles." The article was not in error.
~62. Two children born in the same hospital, in the same hour, day, and year, have the same mother and father, but are not twins.
~63. A couple will build a square house. In each wall they'll have a window, and each window will face north.
~64. There are a pipe, a carrot and a pile of pebbles together in the middle of a field.
~65. The telephone rang in the middle of the night and the woman woke up. When she answered it the caller hung up. The caller felt better.
~66. The seals came up to do their show but immediately dove back into the water.
~67. A man is found dead in an alley lying in a pool of red with two sticks crossed near his head.
~68. A man called to a waiter in a restaurant, "There's a fly in my tea!" "I will bring you a fresh cup of tea," said the waiter. After a few moments, the man called out, "This is the same cup of tea!" How did he know?
~69. A man is found dead outside a large marble building with three holes in him.
~70. An ordinary American citizen, with a clean police record but no passport, managed to visit over thirty foreign countries. He was welcomed in each country, and left each one of his own accord. He did this in one day.
~71. Three heavy people try to crowd under one umbrella, and nobody gets wet.
~72. A black man dressed all in black, wearing a black mask, stands at a crossroads in a totally black-painted town. All of the streetlights in town are broken. There is no moon. A black-painted car without headlights drives straight toward him, but turns in time and doesn't hit him.
~72. The wind stopped blowing and the man died.
~74. An Arab sheik tells his two sons that are to race their camels to a distant city to see who will inherit his fortune. The one whose camel arrives last will win. The brothers, after wandering aimlessly for days, ask a wise man for advise. After hearing the advice they jump on the camels and race as fast as they can to their destination.
~75. A man puts a quarter down, and leaves.
~76. A man lies dead next to a feather.
~77. A man carrying an attaché case full of $20 bills falls on the way to the bank and is never seen again.
~78. The pope is giving a speech. A man in the audience shoots the mayor who is behind the pope.
~79. A man travels to twenty countries and stays in each country for a month. During this time he never sees the light of day.
~80. King Henry VIII is lying at the bottom of the stairs with a gash across his face.
~81. Joe wants to go home, but he can't go home, because the man in the mask is waiting for him.
~82. A man lies dead in a room with fifty-three bicycles in front of him.
~83. Two people are playing cards. One looks around and realizes he's going to die.
~84. A woman opens an envelope and dyes.
~85. A man is holding a box. Though he cannot see into it, he knows what's inside.
~86. A man was walking along some railroad tracks when he noticed that a train was coming. He walked toward the train before stepping aside.
~87. A man was going about his daily occupation when he noticed that his shirt was torn. 15 minutes later, he was dead.
~88. A train pulls into a station, but none of the waiting passengers move.
~89. In his own home a man watches as a woman dies, yet does nothing to save her.
~90. There is a dead man, a beetle on top of a book, and a pile of bricks.
~91. A dish moves, a scientist makes a discovery.
~92. A man is alone on an island with no food and no water, yet he does not fear for his life.
~93. A husband coming home hears his wife call "Bill, don't kill me!". He walks in and finds his wife dead. Inside are a postman, a doctor, and a lawyer. The husband immediately knows the postman killed his wife.
~94. Bruce wins the race, but he gets no trophy.
~95. A man rolls over a glass bottle. He travels the last 100 miles of the Sahara 5000 road race with a flat tire.
~96. Man pleads with boss not to fly to Chicago. The boss goes and when he returns, he fires the man.
~97. On an archaeological dig, the frozen remains of a man and woman are found. Immediately, the archaeologists realize that the remains are those of Adam and Eve.
~98. A horse jumps over a tower and lands on a man, who disappears.
~99. It's the year 860 A.D., at Camelot. Two priests are sitting in the castle's chapel. The queen attacks the king. The two priests rise, shake hands, and leave the room.
~100. Two people are talking long distance on the phone; one is in an East-Coast state, the other is in a West-Coast state. The first asks the other "What time is it?", hears the answer, and says, "That's funny. It's the same time here!"
~101. A boy and his father are injured in a car accident. Both are taken to a hospital. The father dies at arrival, but the boy lives and is taken to surgery. A grey-haired, bespectacled surgeon looks at the boy and says, "I cannot operate on this boy -- he's my son."
~102. The glass breaks, and then the man dies.
~103. A man is running. He sees lights flickering and begins to walk.
~104. A woman goes to the doctor. Later that evening she kills herself.
~105. A man is lying dead in a room. There is a large pile of gold and jewels on the floor, a chandelier attached to the ceiling, and a large open window.
~106. A woman buys a new pair of shoes, goes to work, and dies.
~107. A car without a driver moves; a man dies.
~108. She grabbed his ring, pulled on it, and dropped it, thereby saving his life.
~109. Mr. Browning is glad the car ran out of gas.
~110. A man leaves a motel room, goes to his car, honks the horn, and returns.
~111. Two dead people sit in their cars on a street.
~112. A man ran into a fire and lived. A man stayed where there was no fire and died.
~113. Three men die. On the pavement are pieces of ice and broken glass.
~114. Two people in a room alone. One looks around and realizes he's going to die.
~115. A man is alone on an island with no food and no water, yet he does not fear for his life.
~116. A man walks into a room, shoots, and kills himself
~117. Beulah died in the Appalachians, while Craig died at sea. Everyone was much happier with Craig's death
~118. A man was brought before a tribal chief, who asked him a question. If he had known the answer, he probably would have died. He didn't, and lived.
~119. A writer with an audience of millions insisted that he was never to be interrupted while writing. After the day when he actually was interrupted, he never wrote again
~120. A young woman is whisked away to a far off land, where she kills the first person she meets. Then she teams up with three others to kill again.
~121. Three men are dead near a car.
~122. A murderer is condemned to death. He has to choose between three rooms. The first is full of raging fires, the second is full of assassins with loaded guns, and the third is full of lions that haven't eaten in 3 years. Being an astute observer, he picks one door and lives.
~123. A woman shoots her husband. Then she holds him under water for over 5 minutes. Finally, she hangs him. But 5 minutes later they both go out together and enjoy a wonderful dinner together. How can this be?
~124. A very rich man hires a poor man to clean one wing of his extravagant domicile. The poor man, wanting to impress his new boss, cleans the entire house. Soon after, the man quits his job.
~125. He was killed because of poor eyesight.
~126. Two men look at each other and start to argue. They make a phone call. One man leaves for home and the other begins to dig.


Click here for solutions
Go back to Mike's homepage ]]> General Electrical Discussion jrannis http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/something-think-about-while-waiting-inspector-10038/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/help-please-10037/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:55:19 GMT Im 17 years old and am looking to become an electrician. I have rang multiple contractors to see if i could work with them, a pursue my course in... Im 17 years old and am looking to become an electrician.

I have rang multiple contractors to see if i could work with them, a pursue my course in tafe early next year.

So all have said no or not at the moment.
Is this the right time to call or is there an easier way of getting someone to take me in as an apprentice. ]]> General Electrical Discussion Ptc http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/help-please-10037/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/lead-based-paint-activities-renovations-10036/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:10:27 GMT Has anyone here specifically in NJ gotten their certification in conducting lead based paint renovations....? This is a new certification from the... Has anyone here specifically in NJ gotten their certification in conducting lead based paint renovations....? This is a new certification from the EPA that requires proper procedures and practices when working in a home that is pre 1978 in regards to the high probability of lead paint in the walls and ceilings. have any idea what im talking about...? Questions or comments. ]]> General Electrical Discussion captkirk http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/lead-based-paint-activities-renovations-10036/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/estimating-10033/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:19:11 GMT Hey guys, I'm tired of paying high prices to estimators, for a job I don't even have yet. On smaller jobs I would like to bid them myself. Any info on how to bid using the point system? And how much per point? Thanks !!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: ]]> General Electrical Discussion AllStar http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/estimating-10033/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/license-question-10031/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:57:43 GMT I am originally from Indiana and now live in Montana. I hold a License from Indianapolis (Indiana doesn't have a State license). I currently work in the Mining Industry as an electrical supervisor. Mines in Montana are regulated through MSHA and a State License is not required for work on Mining property. My question is, I want to obtain a State License and although I have over 20 Years experience in Industrial Electrical (Mining) MSHA Verified, and the Indianapolis License; Montana will not recognize this experience, nor will it recognize the Indianapolis License. Do I have any alternatives?

Thanks!:blink: ]]> General Electrical Discussion Mathusalum http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/license-question-10031/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/hey-nj-10030/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:52:19 GMT How much is a permit going to cost me for a whole house rewire? Job is in Manalapan. 52 - Duplex Receptacles 8 - GFCI Receptacles... How much is a permit going to cost me for a whole house rewire?

Job is in Manalapan.

52 - Duplex Receptacles
8 - GFCI Receptacles (Interior, Exterior)
15 - Single Pole switches
11 - Three-way switches
1 - Four way switch (kitchen)
3 - 110 CFM Exhaust Fans (excluding venting)
4 - Ceiling Fans with light kits
2 - Carbon/ Smoke combination detectors
4 - Smoke detectors
3 - Bathroom vanity lights
9 - Overhead ceiling-mounted lights (excluding chandeliers, recessed lighting)
3 - Exterior Coach lamps
1- Furnace hook-up
1 - 3 Ton A/C Condensing unit
1 - 200 amp service, 40 circuit Square D Homeline panel, ground and bond to code.

I would like to include the permit in my price. ]]> General Electrical Discussion Magnettica http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/hey-nj-10030/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/i-dont-like-but-its-legal-10028/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:34:46 GMT Here's another of my I don't like it, but its legal, and its probably the fastest to get the job done.

A circuit(recptacle) was disconnected and the panel it came from is full. That 20 amp breaker that fed it lost its spot to a 3 pole 100 amp, (along with 2 other breakers).

There is a panel 'right beside it' with a spare. Basically the plan is to run a short conduit/flex about 6" to the panel where the wires were originally in the panel, and just feed that circuit that way. Basically, using that original panel as a 'junction' box for a splice just for that one circuit.

I recommended that they 'tag',label the circuit so the next person will quickly know that its feed from another panel and killing power to that panel will not kill all the power in that panel.

What do you think?? ]]> General Electrical Discussion brother http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/i-dont-like-but-its-legal-10028/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/sparks-10027/ Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:53:56 GMT I had a nifty little short today at a resi service call.

The termite treatment guys driled a 3/8" hole right thru a PVC conduit feeding a detached carport and driveway gate.

Homeowner installed 12/3 romex in 3/4" PVC :jester:

I turned on one breaker...clear. I turned on the other one and it sounded like about 6 or 7 firecrackers going off and smoke was coming up thru the concrete pavers. I couldn't believe the breakers didn't trip (I shut it off quickly:laughing:)

I just pulled in THWN, spliced it in the LB (like it was) and moved on. The conduit still has a hole in it but I was pretty sure they didn't want me to tear up the pavers (they were not home)

I laid the romex next to the hole so I can send a pic to the termite guys.




Also I was working alone today (old school style) and was having a hell of a time pulling in 30' of wire in an awkward position. With a hand it would have been simple but the LB was 7' high, right under the eave/roof.

Time to improvise. Threw the wire in the roof, fashioned a guide and pulled it with ease.



Bonus pic from another job. I am such an adolescent.

]]> General Electrical Discussion 220/221 http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/sparks-10027/ http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/sign-up-now-10024/ Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:23:15 GMT *Electrician* Classes... Electrician Classes
Institute.Wyotech.com Become an Electrician in 9 months. Enrolling now. Learn more. ]]> General Electrical Discussion te12co2w http://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/sign-up-now-10024/