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Old 01-24-2017, 03:14 PM   #1
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Default Small project with underground

We have a small project that is about 250' total and has about 30' or so of underground out to a portable classroom.
They will be using cloud based curriculum. Two classrooms, each side with 14 students using Surface Pro devices via WiFi, plugged in will be a printer, one Prometheus board, three student workstations, instructor desk.

I wanted to do something a bit different to distinguish us from others by installing fiber from the server room out to a switch in one side of the portable and then cat 5 or cat 6 ( is cat 6 really necessary). I might be overly concerned about running underground with data cable, having to purchase 300' of underground cable due to a short piece running underground.
I see that fiber media converters are only about $100 or so for the server room side and 300' of outdoor SM with terminated ends is about $120.
Price of a Cisco 2960 looks to be about $150

Cat5E underground or regular is very cheap.

Question:
Is fiber just as plug and play as ethernet?
I dont see a massive difference in pricing.
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:40 PM   #2
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You should definitely run fiber underground. The benefit of not having to surge protect it tips the balance on the gear.

Media converters are not usually the thing for this, you'll want SFPs for the switches, no big deal.

The best thing to install is singlemode but that's less forgiving than multimode, if you haven't worked with it. Neither is real forgiving compared to copper.

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Old 01-24-2017, 06:30 PM   #3
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You should definitely run fiber underground. The benefit of not having to surge protect it tips the balance on the gear.

Media converters are not usually the thing for this, you'll want SFPs for the switches, no big deal.

The best thing to install is singlemode but that's less forgiving than multimode, if you haven't worked with it. Neither is real forgiving compared to copper.

NICE SIG WISE ASS
I have to take a regular ethernet port from the main server rack and convert it to fiber, the switch I have in mind for the classroom side will take fiber.
Im only supplying and connecting, the IT guy is doing the smart work. He wont throw cables.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:36 PM   #4
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I like the fiber idea. Besides, isn't 250' of Cat5 kinda pushing it anyway?
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:37 AM   #5
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I like the fiber idea. Besides, isn't 250' of Cat5 kinda pushing it anyway?
You can go right up to the distance limit without any problems.

You can usually go a LITTLE further with plenum rated cable.
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Old 01-25-2017, 07:16 AM   #6
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The "limit" at this point is unknown. I do know that they are planning a second portable and will require cameras in the near future.
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Old 01-25-2017, 07:19 AM   #7
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I meant the 328' ethernet / UTP distance limit.
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Old 01-25-2017, 12:03 PM   #8
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I meant the 328' ethernet / UTP distance limit.
Splatz,
You seem to have some expertise.
We will be going from copper to fiber and back.

Do you have a preference of any media adaptors for FC SM fiber and an 18 port switch for the classroom side?

Will Cisco 200 series work such as SLM2016T-NA?

John
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Old 01-25-2017, 01:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncoast Power View Post
I have to take a regular ethernet port from the main server rack and convert it to fiber, the switch I have in mind for the classroom side will take fiber.
Im only supplying and connecting, the IT guy is doing the smart work. He wont throw cables.
You could offer them the option to leave the existing switch, and just install a media converter ... save them a few bucks.

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Splatz,
You seem to have some expertise.
We will be going from copper to fiber and back.

Do you have a preference of any media adaptors for FC SM fiber and an 18 port switch for the classroom side?

Will Cisco 200 series work such as SLM2016T-NA?

John
I'd talk to the IT guy, and or replace with the same brand they are using if you go this way.

Cisco is $$$ !!
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:13 PM   #10
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You could offer them the option to leave the existing switch, and just install a media converter ... save them a few bucks.

I'd talk to the IT guy, and or replace with the same brand they are using if you go this way.

Cisco is $$$ !!
The nice thing about giving them a media adapter is you don't have to make it work with their gear to prove your part of the install is OK and punch out.

Cisco's flagship line is really overpriced. They also have a small business line that came from when they bought Linksys, it's not awful but I don't like it.
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Old 01-25-2017, 04:12 PM   #11
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Do you have a preference of any media adaptors for FC SM fiber and an 18 port switch for the classroom side?
I like Allied Telesis for a good reasonable priced media adapter, not hard to use.

I'd buy a media adapter with LC ends so you have the same combination at both ends - you will only find SFPs for today's switches with LC connections. If you use an FC terminated cable you'll have to use an FC-LC patch cord.

That Cisco you picked out is not bad and it has the magic "C" word stamped on it.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:11 AM   #12
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Splatz knows what he's talking about, fiber underground runs are the best call for in between portables, especially if they add one further out in the future, you already have the equipment in place rather than later having to quote fiber interface if the run is more than 350'
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
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You should definitely run fiber underground. The benefit of not having to surge protect it tips the balance on the gear.

The best thing to install is singlemode but that's less forgiving than multimode, if you haven't worked with it. Neither is real forgiving compared to copper.
I disagree. Multimode is much more forgiving. It's ideal for short runs like this. Singlemode is long runs and huge bandwidth. Multimode is also more economical. The media converters will have max bandwidth and distance in the specs.

Fiber Optic Review:
The larger diameter- think of it as a big tunnel- lets the light take different paths, creating multiple rays, or modes (hence multi-mode). The light bounces around more, which means the connectors and splices for multimode are more forgiving than for singlemode, but the bouncing causes dispersion and fidelity loss. On the other hand, singlemode has a much smaller diameter core, giving the light one straight path, or mode, through the cable. Because of this, singlemode offers higher throughput and longer distance, but the light equipment and connectors are much more finely-tuned. Which, of course, means singlemode is much more expensive.


Plug and play. Not necessarily. Dust and dirt can get on the connector ends. No matter how careful or clean you are. Always a chance of a damage connector than can only be seen with a scope. The trouble is there is no way of knowing if the install is good without a fiber microscope and optical loss test set. Just because it works is not a good standard. As the loss is expected to degrade with time.

Your looking at a few thousand in testing and cleaning materials to do it right. Testing could be subed out.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:53 PM   #14
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I disagree. Multimode is much more forgiving. It's ideal for short runs like this. Singlemode is long runs and huge bandwidth. Multimode is also more economical. The media converters will have max bandwidth and distance in the specs.
I see what you're saying but I'd still go with singlemode. Your thoughts above are how I thought of it when I started installing fiber 20+ years ago, but I think gigabit and certainly 10GB have changed things. (Very few customers I deal with are running 10GB other than within their data centers right now, but who knows what the future holds.)

I still install plenty of multimode, but in most cases in a facility with no legacy fiber to match, I'll recommend singlemode. This run was quite short but who's to say the next one isn't beyond the distance limits for gigabit over multimode?

You could use multimode for the short ones and singlemode for the long ones, but it's nice to have just one type of fiber so all the electronics and patch cords work with everything else, you can move equipment around freely, swap patch cords and components to test, etc. The price of singlemode is really not significant in most jobs, and even the electronics are cheap these days.
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