6 Year old electrocuted. Absolutely Criminal - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

sgr1 · 12-31-2008, 01:23 PM

This guys a total bumba** He hooked up a fence to a 20A breaker. Thats what they need to do to him!
http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=9596894&nav=0RY5

Speedy Petey · 12-31-2008, 01:35 PM

Dead link, but if I understand it right, there is "not to code", and there is criminal. It sounds like the latter.

480sparky · 12-31-2008, 03:34 PM

Link has been assimilated.

pudge565 · 12-31-2008, 05:01 PM

Amazing how parents that don't watch their kids want to blame someone else when their kid gets hurt or killed. If she would been watching them she could have acted sooner. Who knows how long she was on the fence before her son told her about it. Also had she done CPR correctly maybe she would have survived. Back blows are only for if they are choking. She should have done either the palm of one hand or 2 fingers doing compressions at a rate of 30 compressions to 2 breaths. second of all I loved her statement that 20 amps could run half a house. Really I guess all new houses should have only 40 amp mains. But you better tell the code panels so that they can amend that in the code. I also love this part

Quote:

There should be some kind of regulations or trip lines or something where if something gets on that line, it stops.

Now doesn't that defeat the purpose of an electric fence. If it shuts of when the animal touches it they will still get out. She also stated that normal people would put it on a maybe 5 amp breaker. I'd like to know where to get those for a normal panel. A normal install would have required a transformer that bumped the voltage down. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying that the neighbor isn't at fault since he had an uncompliant install however it is not fully his fault.

Kevin J · 12-31-2008, 07:25 PM

This isnt about a parent watching their kids 24/7. This is about a joe-blow homeowner doing his own electrical. What a dumbass! I have cattle also, and I have electric fences. But, my fences aren't direct wired. They're connected to a UL approved electric fence charger. These things provide thousands of volts, but minimul amps. And wer'e talking miili-amps. Plus, the charger pulses about every second so when you do get shocked, you have a chance to back off. I have kids also. Believe me, they have touched the fences plenty of times(I must confess, it was amusing) and no harm has come to them. That's what its supposed to do, startle them,(the cattle) not kill them. Its a tragedy that this happened. If the guy who put the fence in had talked to someone who knew what they doing, this would a story about a little girl who ran home to her mommy because the fence scared her and maybe hurt a little, not a story of a little girl who was killed because someone ASSUMED they knew what they were doing and tried to save some money.

gilbequick · 12-31-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pudge565

Amazing how parents that don't watch their kids want to blame someone else when their kid gets hurt or killed. If she would been watching them she could have acted sooner. Who knows how long she was on the fence before her son told her about it.

Yeah you're out of your mind.

bradmaggard · 12-31-2008, 11:28 PM

Yeah Pudge, you shouldn't have to worry about the neighbors fence being lethal. The mom could have been five foot away, watched it happen, and it wouldn't of made a difference. Furthermore, if the mom tried to pull her off then there might of been two injuries. Yes, if the circumstances were different, the mother's statements would of been funny, but you are out of line by assuming that it was because the children were not watched. Were you watched 24/7? Were you attached to the breast till 10? You gotta be kidding. If this guy was my neighbor, he'd be tied up while my friends and I had the jumper cables on his nuts.

TOOL_5150 · 01-01-2009, 01:50 AM

They guy needs to be punished - severly.

Would have been better if these guys just kept their mouth shut:

"It wasn't a typical electrical fence that would be powered down," said Captain Marty Latham. "It was running straight through a 110 outlet and there was a lot of amps running through it. People with common sense would put it maybe on a 5... but 20 amps, that's enough to power half of a house," said Slack.

So do you guys put your electric fences on a 5 amp breaker?

~Matt

bradmaggard · 01-01-2009, 02:33 AM

The more I think about it the more pissed I get, I've already e-mailed the newsteam that covered this. Said that they needed to request that electrical professionals devote a few hours of their time to take the stand, give their opinion on this idiot, to help this mother get justice for losing her baby, over a senseless act.
I have tried to determine the circumstances of her death. There would have been no load on this circuit, I am assuming, only resistive load from the wire.Most household breakers are set to trip at 10,000 VAC. 10,000 Divided by 120 Volts is approximately 83 Amps. The body has low resistance, so this could easily pass through the body at that amperage. It doesn't matter if it is a 5 amp breaker or a 70 amp breaker, they are set to trip at 10,000, or 25,000 to ground. I said to ground, which she was to ground. The twenty amp rating is only set to trip at twenty amps at a steady controlled draw of over that rating. The officials shouldn't even be looking at the breakers circuit rating, they should look at the aic rating.

bradmaggard · 01-01-2009, 02:33 AM

The more I think about it the more pissed I get, I've already e-mailed the newsteam that covered this. Said that they needed to request that electrical professionals devote a few hours of their time to take the stand, give their opinion on this idiot, to help this mother get justice for losing her baby, over a senseless act.
I have tried to determine the circumstances of her death. There would have been no load on this circuit, I am assuming, only resistive load from the wire.Most household breakers are set to trip at 10,000 VAC. 10,000 Divided by 120 Volts is approximately 83 Amps. The body has low resistance, so this could easily pass through the body at that amperage. It doesn't matter if it is a 5 amp breaker or a 70 amp breaker, they are set to trip at 10,000, or 25,000 to ground. I said to ground, which she was to ground. The twenty amp rating is only set to trip at twenty amps at a steady controlled draw of over that rating. The officials shouldn't even be looking at the breakers circuit rating, they should be looking at the aic rating

bobelectric · 01-01-2009, 07:38 AM

Maybe all electric fences should be on a G.F.I.device?????(just adding a little gasoline)

TOOL_5150 · 01-01-2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobelectric

Maybe all electric fences should be on a G.F.I.device?????(just adding a little gasoline)

that would do nothing because a real electric fence module has a transformer, and a gfi wont detect anything on the load side of the transformer.

~Matt

bobelectric · 01-01-2009, 07:55 AM

Good answer. I'll ponder that one to see if a G.F.I. is wondering where all the amps are running away to.

TOOL_5150 · 01-01-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobelectric

Good answer. I'll ponder that one to see if a G.F.I. is wondering where all the amps are running away to.

The gfi "sees" the current returning through the primary coil. It doesnt have a reason to trip.

~Matt

bobelectric · 01-01-2009, 08:59 AM

Yeah ,Your're correct. My point is no matter what, you can't fix Stupid in a D.I.Y. Lawsuits don't bring back lives.

TOOL_5150 · 01-01-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobelectric

Yeah ,Your're correct. My point is no matter what, you can't fix Stupid in a D.I.Y. Lawsuits don't bring back lives.

True, the unfortunate thing is the girls family has to suffer because of someone elses stupidity.

~Matt

Old-Frt · 01-04-2009, 04:37 PM

Tragic.

Let us hope others will realize that electrical work is no hoby and employ people wit experience and proper training.

randomkiller · 01-04-2009, 04:44 PM

My heart goes out the the family of that little girl. What a tragic thing to happen. Like others have already said, you just can't fix stupid.

heel600 · 01-04-2009, 10:58 PM

In the article I think it said they want to pass a law to keep this from happening again.

I think there are already laws for this. I'm sure every state would require a building permit.

Even if there was some sort of loophole, I doubt a specific law would have prevented this. Too many stupid people out there.

nap · 01-05-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote:

"People with common sense would put it maybe on a 5... but 20 amps, that's enough to power half of a house," said Slack. "She didn't have time to scream for help, close her eyes, nothing."

Obvioulsy any breaker would not be correct. It's just stupid to do what that guy did.

I see this happened in Texas. Do they use the electric chair for executions? It would be fitting.

This reminded me of a death near me a month or so ago. A young child of similar age got into a POCO pad mounted transformer that apparently had the lock missing. It killed him. Just sad that crap like this does happen.

Pudge:

actually, the voltage is increased for an electric fence to somewhere around 1 kV.

and

Quote:

Amazing how parents that don't watch their kids want to blame someone else when their kid gets hurt or killed. If she would been watching them she could have acted sooner. Who knows how long she was on the fence before her son told her about it. Also had she done CPR correctly maybe she would have survived. Back blows are only for if they are choking. She should have done either the palm of one hand or 2 fingers doing compressions at a rate of 30 compressions to 2 breaths.

I am presuming you do not have children. You should not have to worry about the neighbors fence having the ability to kill your child. Children need to be watched but you also need to be able to allow your child to have freedoms as well. I guess you think we should just all keep oour children locked in their bedrooms? Whoops, better not do that. A kid hung themselves when they jumped off the top bunk and got his shirt caught. Maybe we should just sedate them until they turn 18.

this is 100% the neighbors fault. The child and the mother have absolultely no fault in this. NONE. NADA. ZIP!!!!

Sorry for being so abrasive to you ppudge but dammit, this was a stupid thing to happen and you are looking to the wrong people to blame.