CanadianBrad

Hey, everyone, I've got a couple questions arising from the use of scissor lifts. I took a course in scissor lift operation, and the guy teaching the course was explaining the necessity of fall arrest harnesses/lanyards. He also pointed out that every scissor lift has a set of rings on it, meant for workers on the platform to tie off to.

So I checked out our little Skyjack at the shop, and sure enough, it has two of these tie-off rings. But it's a small lift, small enough to be driven through a standard man door without dropping the side rails. Based on the width(~30"), I'm not sure these tie-off rings are doing me any favours.

The way I see it, there are two terrible things that could easily happen. Firstly, the lift could topple over sideways, and secondly, a guy could fall out. I'm sure that there are other possibilities, but these are the first two that come to my mind.

So here's my concern. Let's say I'm in the lift and leaning too far out the side, and fall out. Without my harness, I'm going to make a 19' fall(the top elevation of our platform), and screw myself up in some terrible way(potentially lethal). However, with my harness, I'm going to drop for a short distance, and my lanyard will catch me. However, with such a narrow lift, and me being a 200-lb guy, I'm fairly certain that the force generated by me falling over the side will be enough to drag the lift down on top of me. Despite how badly I'll potentially be injured by falling out of the lift(with death a clear possibility), it seems to me that by tying off, I'm likely injuring myself just as badly, with the added bonus of now dragging the lift down on top of myself.

So, second, I'm in the lift. Some jerk not paying attention on his forklift(example) plows into the side of my raised lift, and over it goes. Given the weight balance of a raised scissor lift, I expect that it will start fairly slowly, and accelerate quickly as it falls. A person not tethered to the lift may(or may not) have a chance to jump clear as the lift falls, to a potentially safe place. If your lanyard connects you to the lift, you're riding that sucker down, for better or for worse.

At this point, I still don't tie myself off to the scissor lift. I always wear a harness on the lift, and when possible, I tie myself off to something secure overhead. I've also sunk anchors into concrete walls and tied off to eye bolts, although I'm a little more dubious of this. However, if I'm going to be working in the middle of an open space, with nothing sturdy overhead(just a flimsy basket tray or something), I remove the lanyard from my harness, and don't tie off to anything.

For obvious reasons, my boss and the safety guys around our site don't really like this. I've explained multiple times my concerns, and I've said flat-out that if they require me to tie off to the lift, I refuse to operate it, as it doesn't seem safe. To this point, no one has outright stopped me, but it's definitely become a point of contention.

We've got a job coming up that will require a lot of scissor lift operation. I'm attempting to sort out some of the safety concerns that I and others have prior to beginning, so if anyone has some information on something I've overlooked, or a thought to add, please share.

sbrn33

If its a normal slab lift on concrete you don't need a harness. Off road yes bucket truck yes.

__________________
Stop trying to think logically, it won't help you here. Just do as we say and everything will be alright.

spook

When I did the fall arrest course I was told that if you fall and are stuck in your harness for more then 15 min there's a good chance your done for anyways because unless you got a good harness it will cut off circulation. The real reason they don't want you to tie off to something other then the lift is if you forget to unhook and start to go down you can be stuck hanging there. There was a young journeyman I Knew that ended up suffocating to death when his hoody and laynard got hung up in some structural steel a couple years ago.

CanadianBrad

I haven't taken the fall arrest course, but I've heard something like that before as well. I can't say I'm overly impressed with the state of our harnesses and lanyards, either. I can't remember now how often they tell you to replace them, but I guarantee they're older than that, and in rough condition to boot - although not clearly defective.

Good point regarding the tie-off to structural steel, too. I can't say that I've ever done that, but I imagine it's a fairly common problem. Makes a good case study for why not to tie off to structure. Does anyone tie off to their scissor lift? I couldn't tell you if it's in the provincial jobsite safety rules, but the site we contract to does require it, at least on paper. So do the lift manufacturers, according to their directions.

Do you guys tie off to your scissor lifts?

Big John

Spook, that's suspension trauma. The blood pools in your legs, your blood-pressure drops down to nothing.

I don't have it in from of me, but am 98.6% sure that per OSHA no tie-off is required for scissor lifts, only boom lifts.

-John

sparky970

Suspension trauma straps are a good idea if you are working by yourself and wearing fall protection

CADPoint

I believe you have the 15 minute statement backwards, if in harness blood stops flowing to the legs, and you have 15 minutes before it becomes critical to the legs and thus no circulation.

Suspension straps are additional straps that one uses to puts ones legs into after suspension to cause blood to flow back to the legs, similar to working the legs on a treadmill in Space.

Look for suspension straps to be built-into future lanyards. At twenty dollars
its a good personal PPE device to add to one's lanyard.

leland

All your points are valid. but a study was done buy the governing officials and they are correct.

I know of 2 fatalities. one a friend, one an acquaintance.

one got squeezed in a door way on a sizer lift, the harness seems to have impeded his movement. Osha investigated.......

The other, in a bucket truck fall over- the truck- he was tied off as well.

harnesses help and they hinder. many have been saved by them and several have died due them. Kinda like the seat belt in an auto.

kaboler

Lifts don't require fall protection, they require motion limiters to prevent too much leaning and going over the side.

I'm sure they taught you a lot of things about lift safety, and one of the major things they taught you is to have the proper lift for the proper job. You should never have a lift flip on you. It'll happen outdoors in the mud and you run over some plywood covering a hole, but you have to be aware of that.

They aren't cars, you should be driving them carefully and safely. I spend a lot of time on lifts, and there are just so many dangers:

1) sprinkler heads.
2) crushing your hand when lifting on something unexpected... keep your hands off the safety railings.
3) gas lines, pipes, FANS! Wouldn't want a hi-speed commercial fan giving me a whack, and I'm sure anyone who has spent time on a lift gets nervous around them.
4) forklifts, but you don't have control over them, unless you set up barricades, which I do.
5) ESCAPE PLAN! Check occupational health and safety handbook. You must have an escape plan. If you forget your phone, or if you're working alone, and you lose it over the side, you really want to be hanging there till monday before someone finds you dead? Don't work alone.
6) Equipment, shelving, customer's stuff. It's worth going slow.

I've seen guys hotrodding on them, and they look like idiots, and suprisingly, not always young guys.

Other guys, wearing reflective vests, barricading, having a spotter, hardhats, safety glasses, they look professional.

If you're up on your lift, 50 feet up, and someone comes along and switches control from the platform to the lift, do you know how to get down manually?

kaboler

But yes, motion limiters, not really fall protection.

I have one of those retractable lanyards that is both fall protection (it has one of those plastic pressure-popping thingies) as well as a motion limiter (like wearing a seatbelt).

Frasbee

Scissor lifts are considered scaffold and therefore do not require tie-off as far as OSHA is concerned. (Unless something has changed recently).

TooFarFromFenway

Nope, just did OSHA 30 this past week as a refresher, and it's still not required. It must have railings and beeping motion alarms, etc. etc. but no, no tie off.

__________________
Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field? ~Jim Bouton, 1988

sbrn33

Unless it's off slab or has off road tires. I believe

__________________
Stop trying to think logically, it won't help you here. Just do as we say and everything will be alright.

East Coast Paul

jman i worked with had this happen to him a few years before i met him, hit him on the elbow when he thought he was far enough away and spent a few hours in the hospital getting stitches. lucky that was all i think.

Bbsound

this is my understanding also

kaboler

They make scissor lifts with tie-off points, so it'd be hard to explain, if someone gets hurt, why they weren't being used.

I don't have my handbook on me, but I think any kind of driveable lift requires being tied off, in Canada perhaps. Not sure either way, but it's there, and most companies require it around here, regardless of what ohsa says.

CDN EC

I've used a bunch of them and was never asked to have a harness, not sure what the rule is (I'm untrained )

As for harnesses themselves, I've had a few people tell me no one cares if it's tied off as long as you're wearing it. But given the positions and heights we have to work with sometimes, if there's something to tie off to, I do it every time. Good point on the concern over the lift tipping over though, those small ones strike me as terribly lightweight.

__________________
If you let the smoke out, you void the warranty. - NK

BBQ

Not by OSHA.

chicken steve

Osha fined a worker here , 'manlift on concrete no saftey harness'

and other than an on line resource (which many are not privey to, or eshew) there are no local Osha realted courses

bit of a Guaqmire imho......~CS~

360max

....we are required to be 100% tied off regardless of lift type, I'd have to see that OSHA standard to believe it. Note, when you are on any lift and even put your foot up on the toe rail, that requires 100% tie off or it is an OSHA violation