How much FR? - Page 2 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

drsparky · 08-02-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDShunk

I've done some weird things in my lifetime, but wearing specialized flasher's pants is not one of them.

JohnJ0906 · 08-02-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InPhase277

True, but an idiot trying to wear a damaged hardhat deserves all that's coming to him.

I think the point is, a sticker will conceal a developing crack, and the worker will not be aware of it.

If someone knows of damage, and deliberately covers it with a sticker, then I agree with you.

Zog · 08-02-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattsilkwood

it wont. but it will hide any damage.

There is no way to know what a sticker is made of so they are not recommended for use on class E hard hats per ASTM Z89 and are banned for use on class E hard hat by several state OSHA programs. Nto only can they hide a defect they can be conductive and should not be placed closer than 3/8" from the edge and should be limited to 1 per panel per Z89 and federal OSHA regulations. But this has been discussed here before so if you want to argue about it start a new thread so we dont hijack this one.

Zog · 08-02-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowforthecones

5.11 Tactical makes some really good flame retardant treated clothing in their ERT and FRX3 line. I had a pic on here of me wearing their FRX3 line as standard operating clothing.

FLASH Pants Description:

Durable, comfortable and functional
Fire resistant
8.5 oz. FR-x3™ canvas fabric
Self-adjusting tunnel waist
Traditional 5.11 pant style
48 bartacks
Triple Stitching
Welted wallet pocket
Kneepad pockets

Law Enforcement and Fire personnel face the dangers of exposure to flame on a daily basis. 5.11 Tactical Series has responded to this danger with the development of a series of FLASH™ products designed specifically for flame related environments. Our new FLASH™ Pants, modeled after our classic 5.11 Tactical Pants, is made with our exclusive FR-x3™ canvas fabric. Fr-x3™ is a revolutionary new fire-retardant fabric exclusive to 5.11 Tactical. This unique material inherits cotton’s natural breathability, comfort and ease of care. Its fire-retardant nature is inherent to the fabric and does not wash or wear out. FR-x3™ exceeds minimum standards in NFPA tests for after-flame and no-drip properties according to ASTM D6413. If you are looking for protection from flame in your attire, be sure to use the reliability and quality or our new FLASH™ Pants.
Durability
Modeled after our classic 5.11 Tactical Pants, our new FLASH™ Pants has all the features you’ll need for tough duty work. Made of durable 8.5-oz. FR-x3™ canvas and constructed with traditional 5.11 toughness the FLASH™ Pants has unique fire retardant qualities to protect you from flame related environments. In addition to the traditional seven pockets, we’ve added a welted wallet pocket, included a self-adjusting tunnel waistband and kept the traditional 5.11 utility strap. Our double reinforced knees include pockets for our Kneepads so you’ll be protected even when you’re on the ground. Our front and back pockets have reinforced edges to protect the material from fraying when using knife or flashlight clips. The cell phone/magazine pocket is reinforced with an extra layer of material to prevent fraying and wear out. We’ve reinforced the knees with an extra layer of material and turned that into kneepad pockets. You can count on the FLASH™ Pants to protect you in very extreme environments.
Comfort
Fit and comfort are the hallmarks of our classic 5.11 Tactical Pants design. We’ve made the FLASH™ Pants with wider leg openings giving the pant more of a boot cut for extra room. The self-adjusting tunnel waist provides added comfort and versatility and our button closure and quality YKK® zipper ensures comfort and ease of use. The belt loops can accommodate our entire belt line and are heavy duty for carrying gear on the waist. You can count the FLASH™ Pants to provide you comfort and protection.
Functionality
When you work in a hazardous environment and face the possibility of fire, our FLASH™ Pants are a must. Our exclusive fire retardant FR-x3 materials are an exceptional value when it comes to protecting you from the extreme dangers of fire. 5.11 Tactical Series is committed to providing you with quality products at an affordable price.

This line os for flash fire protection and not arc flash protection. No ATPV ratings so not 70E compliant.

Zog · 08-02-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDShunk

Are there any special requirements for uniform patches, embroidery, and screen printing on FR rated clothing?

According to ASTM F1506-02a Section 6.1, "Thread, findings and closures used in garment construction shall not contribute to the severity of injuries to the wearer in the event of a momentary electric arc or related thermal exposure."

Also pertinent is Section 6.1.1 "Sewing thread utilized in the construction of garments shall be made of an inherently flame-resistant fiber and shall not melt when tested at a temperature of 260 (degrees celcius, or 500 degrees fehrenheit) in accordance with Federal Test Method Standard 191A, 1534."

In the best interest of your worker's safety, any consumer of Electrical Specific PPE should narrow their decision making process to manufacturers who employ the most conservative interpretation to ASTM Sections 6.1 and 6.1.1.

Zog · 08-02-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InPhase277

That's cool to know, but has anyone ever uttered the words "Poor fellow. He might have lived if it weren't for that name tag"...?

The arc rating of the clothing system is the key here. Non FR clothing is allowed as underlayers as long as they are non melting (Like cotton T-shirt) and these underlayers depend on the FR outer layers to prevent ignition. Non FR thread used in patches (And other parts like hems and seams on the cheapo FR clothing you can find on the market) can allow for ignotion of the non FR underlayers. When the underlayer ignites the FR outer layer acts like a kiln, increasing the burn injuries.

Faultfinder1 · 08-05-2009, 12:58 PM

Another thing to be careful of - with the fairly recent upsurge in the demand for FR clothing there are a lot of fakes out there. Any fool can design and sew in some sort of label claiming FR properties on non-FR fabric. They can make a ton of cash until they get caught - if they ever do.
FR is very popular in California I hear, people wear it as everyday clothing because of the forest fires. When did FR get trendy?
Just make sure you buy your FR from a reliable source, is all I'm saying.

www.faultlocating.com

Zog · 08-05-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faultfinder1

Just make sure you buy your FR from a reliable source, is all I'm saying.

www.faultlocating.com

Very true. There are really only about 3 different arc rated fabrics out there. And there are hundereds of companies making arc flash clothing, they buy the bulk fabric from Westex (Indura), Dupont (Nomex), or AGO (PBI) and make the garments.

I did a research project on the differences in ten different 8 cal/cm2 coveralls using Indura Ultra soft to compare the construction and the results were all over. I pulled the thread out of the hems, some of the threads used were a meltable material, nylon or a blend and when I put my ligher under them they burned fast, hard, and hot. Lots of differences in construction features and quality.

Very little testing is done by the garment manufacturers because the material is already tested and rated, but a friend of mine that tests garments for a living has seen a lot of varied results.

Faultfinder1 · 08-05-2009, 06:37 PM

Sort-of still on topic, when the company that I worked for went to all FR a lot of the guys complained. I set up one of my safety meetings around the value of FR clothing in which I actually used a lighter to set fire to various common fabrics using real articles of clothing. It is interesting to see what really happens when clothes come "under fire". I ended up using a propane torch to light a FR shirt, and even then I only charred a small hole! Impressive.

www.faultlocating.com

thekoolcody · 08-12-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDShunk

Are there any special requirements for uniform patches, embroidery, and screen printing on FR rated clothing?

I dont Believe So On FR Clothing

thekoolcody · 08-12-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnJ0906

I think the point is, a sticker will conceal a developing crack, and the worker will not be aware of it.

If someone knows of damage, and deliberately covers it with a sticker, then I agree with you.

+1

Richard Rowe · 08-13-2009, 04:44 PM

I am assuming FR is Fire Retardant which we all know is not Fire Proof(or won't burn). Keep in mind that the fabric rating is made when the cloth goes through its last treatment. When the cloth is cut and sewn it may pick-up oils or some type of chemical that may burn. When you wear this clothing any chemical you may get on them may cause them to burn even if the flame is removed from the cloth. Not saying that its not a good idea but just remember what you FR clothing has been through that could affect its performance.

Zog · 08-13-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Rowe

I am assuming FR is Fire Retardant which we all know is not Fire Proof(or won't burn). Keep in mind that the fabric rating is made when the cloth goes through its last treatment. When the cloth is cut and sewn it may pick-up oils or some type of chemical that may burn. When you wear this clothing any chemical you may get on them may cause them to burn even if the flame is removed from the cloth. Not saying that its not a good idea but just remember what you FR clothing has been through that could affect its performance.

Thats why it is important to follow the manufactures care and laundering instructions, improper laundering can lower the ATPV of the clothing.