Liability/Safety concerns: Licensed or Unlicensed Electricians? - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

Joe Tedesco · 04-11-2007, 10:07 AM

Please comment on the Liability/Safety concerns for the following tasks, and whether they should be performed by Licensed or Unlicensed Electricians.

Nailing nonmetallic (plastic) boxes and screwing metal boxes to metal studs.

Drilling wooden studs or punching metal studs for raceways or Nonmetallic Sheathed Cables (Romex.)

Pulling Nonmetallic Sheathed Cable (Romex).

Hanging panelboard cabinets (cans.)

Moving electrical equipment, materials and tools.

Hanging temporary lighting with cord cap end.

Installing cable connectors to metal boxes

Installing equipment bonding (pigtails) in boxes.

Stapling Nonmetallic Sheathed Cables (Romex) to wooden studs.

Installing PVC (RNMC) in trenches.

Unboxing lighting fixtures.

Setting and securing fixtures (lights) in ceiling grids.

Installing seismic wires, and earthquake clips for lay in fixtures.

Nailing recessed lights to joists.

brian john · 04-11-2007, 05:25 PM

In my 36 years of experience most of what you listed is/was always completed by an electrician or someone working under an electrician, with possible the exception of opening boxes, moving electrical supplies, tools.

MDShunk · 04-11-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Nailing nonmetallic (plastic) boxes and screwing metal boxes to metal studs.

There is code that covers this, so I say that an electrician needs to do it.

Quote:

Drilling wooden studs or punching metal studs for raceways or Nonmetallic Sheathed Cables (Romex.)

I don't have a problem with a non-electrician doing this, but they better be prepared for a change order or the wrath of God if the holes aren't centered, causing me to have to use nail plates (in wood studs).

Quote:

Pulling Nonmetallic Sheathed Cable (Romex).

electrician

Quote:

Hanging panelboard cabinets (cans.)

electrician, because there's code on this.

Quote:

Moving electrical equipment, materials and tools.

hopefully, someone other than an electrician

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Hanging temporary lighting with cord cap end.

I'm torn. I don't know.

Quote:

Installing cable connectors to metal boxes

electrician

Quote:

Installing equipment bonding (pigtails) in boxes.

electrician

Quote:

Stapling Nonmetallic Sheathed Cables (Romex) to wooden studs.

electrician

Quote:

Installing PVC (RNMC) in trenches.

ELECTRICIAN!!! This is a major gripe of mine. Excavators stealing all the underground conduit and duct bank work from electricians. I reported an excavation contractor who was installing street lighting conduits in my town, and nothing was done about it.

Quote:

Unboxing lighting fixtures.

Jose.

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Setting and securing fixtures (lights) in ceiling grids.

Laborer

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Installing seismic wires, and earthquake clips for lay in fixtures.

Laborer.

Quote:

Nailing recessed lights to joists.

I don't care who. I can't see someone screwing this up bad enough to cause a code violation or safety hazard

John · 04-11-2007, 08:38 PM

All the above tasks should be done under the direct supervision of a Licensed Electrician, but in the real world it just doesn't happen. The NEC should go hand in hand with a NEL (National Electrician License) to get rid of the Unlicensed Scabs doing electrical work. No Exceptions, No loopholes.

No way this is going to happen is it?

HCECalaska · 04-12-2007, 11:29 PM

why dont we make this statement complete john, they should be done by a licensed electrician employed by an electrical contractor..
the trade would be better overall if the "side job" no longer existed, and all work was performed by contractors that are licensed and insured to do the work.

brian john · 04-13-2007, 08:39 AM

NO instead the parts that might get bitten in the lower 48, just freeze off.

JohnJ0906 · 04-13-2007, 07:49 PM

Marc, I have to disagree with you (

) on the installation of lay-ins and wire/clips. I like to see someone who knows what they are doing to secure lights. Although you could train a laborer, I suppose

MDShunk · 04-13-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnJ0906

Marc, I have to disagree with you (

) ...

Feel free. It's just my opinion. You could fill lots of books with all the stuff I've been wrong about.

JohnJ0906 · 04-13-2007, 08:13 PM

I'm just a little funny about things that can drop on people. Last time I did a job with lay-ins, I sent my help around to lay them in, then I personally secured and wire every light. I'm just comfortable being hands on with these. I geuss it's one of my quirks

Joe Tedesco · 04-13-2007, 09:06 PM

See 410.16(C) and http://www.ul.com/lighting/ul1598.html

Look at: IEVV

Joe Tedesco · 10-27-2009, 11:43 PM

Here's a blast from the past when this Forum was truly a Professional Forum!

Please comment on the Liability/Safety concerns for the following tasks, and whether they should be performed by Licensed or Unlicensed Electricians.

Nailing nonmetallic (plastic) boxes and screwing metal boxes to metal studs.

Drilling wooden studs or punching metal studs for raceways or Nonmetallic Sheathed Cables (Romex.)

Pulling Nonmetallic Sheathed Cable (Romex).

Hanging panelboard cabinets (cans.)

Moving electrical equipment, materials and tools.

Hanging temporary lighting with cord cap end.

Installing cable connectors to metal boxes

Installing equipment bonding (pigtails) in boxes.

Stapling Nonmetallic Sheathed Cables (Romex) to wooden studs.

Installing PVC (RNMC) in trenches.

Unboxing lighting fixtures.

Setting and securing fixtures (lights) in ceiling grids.

Installing seismic wires, and earthquake clips for lay in fixtures.

Nailing recessed lights to joists.

BryanMD · 10-27-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tedesco

Please comment on the Liability/Safety concerns for the following tasks, and whether they should be performed by Licensed or Unlicensed Electricians.

what sort of license?
issued by who?
based on what?

Joe Tedesco · 10-28-2009, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanMD

what sort of license?
issued by who?
based on what?

[/left]

1. Journeyman or Master
2. State or Ciry
3. Qualifications

What are your qualifications Sir? Are you licensed?

jrannis · 10-28-2009, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tedesco

Please comment on the Liability/Safety concerns for the following tasks, and whether they should be performed by Licensed or Unlicensed Electricians.

Nailing nonmetallic (plastic) boxes and screwing metal boxes to metal studs.

Drilling wooden studs or punching metal studs for raceways or Nonmetallic Sheathed Cables (Romex.)

Pulling Nonmetallic Sheathed Cable (Romex).

Hanging panelboard cabinets (cans.)

Moving electrical equipment, materials and tools.

Hanging temporary lighting with cord cap end.

Installing cable connectors to metal boxes

Installing equipment bonding (pigtails) in boxes.

Stapling Nonmetallic Sheathed Cables (Romex) to wooden studs.

Installing PVC (RNMC) in trenches.

Unboxing lighting fixtures.

Setting and securing fixtures (lights) in ceiling grids.

Installing seismic wires, and earthquake clips for lay in fixtures.

Nailing recessed lights to joists.

Its all electrical work Joe. What are you getting at with this?

Joe Tedesco · 10-28-2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrannis

Its all electrical work Joe. What are you getting at with this?

It seemed clear to the others here and it was only to call attention to those who have no experience in this trade and who have never been trained to do electrical work in the proper way. Our work cannot be done by those who have no clue; I thought that we seemed to agree here and we want no zombies or political hacks or DIY people messing with the wires!

What do you mean?

"What are you getting at with this?"

Didn't you read the very first post?

Please comment on the Liability/Safety concerns for the following tasks, and whether they should be performed by Licensed or Unlicensed Electricians.

Shado · 10-28-2009, 03:39 AM

I have the same question as jrannis.....

Are you referring 'unlicensed' as those who are not employed by an EC?
Or cubs?

No electrical work should be done by others not employed by an EC.

If you are talking about cubs......by all means,get their experience going! How the hell else are they going to get licensed?

Joe Tedesco · 10-28-2009, 04:04 AM

Go to www.kbrjobs.com

jrannis · 10-28-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tedesco

It seemed clear to the others here and it was only to call attention to those who have no experience in this trade and who have never been trained to do electrical work in the proper way. Our work cannot be done by those who have no clue; I thought that we seemed to agree here and we want no zombies or political hacks or DIY people messing with the wires!

What do you mean?

"What are you getting at with this?"

Didn't you read the very first post?

Please comment on the Liability/Safety concerns for the following tasks, and whether they should be performed by Licensed or Unlicensed Electricians.

Interesting note. We had a job where the owner wanted the GC to purchase the fixtures. The fixutres came on the job and were moved by our electricians two or three times, after hours as not to impact the schedule. There were hundreds of them.
The GC got tired of paying electricians to move the fixtures and had the laborors move the fixtures after we left one night. They stacked them in such a way that almost 80% of the lenses were broken or bent, only the the bottom row that was face down on the slab survived but, it rained that night and they were in 2" of water the next morning.
Those were some expensive fixtures!!

bobelectric · 10-28-2009, 09:57 AM

Joe,
What did you do over iraq to make life better in America?

rewire · 10-28-2009, 11:36 AM

I consider this all to be the responsibility of the elctrical contractor much of the work can be preformed by a well supervised apprentice.