NewberElec

I will be starting an electrical apprenticeship here in the next week but have concerns about working with live wiring or live panels. Are those normal concerns to have? I've heard of guys doing "hot" work but is it standard to work "live" in residential or commercial?? or do you shut the power off?

MDShunk

Working live, in large part, is plainly illegal. You're likely to go your whole career without the need to work live. There are instances where you must, but the safety requirements are great, and you will receive special training. You'll still find guys who feel some overwhelming need to display their bravado and work live for no good reason. Those guys are idiots.

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-Marc, ABC, XYZ, PhD, 1-2-3

-Someday, I'll wear pajamas in the day time.

Black4Truck

Welcome to the forum

Right now don't worry about working with live wires or panels, it won't happen.

MDShunk

Yeah, the only thing "live" an apprentice is likely to work with is the extension cord you'll plug your tools into.

__________________
-Marc, ABC, XYZ, PhD, 1-2-3

-Someday, I'll wear pajamas in the day time.

randas

Even if you want to, you wont be allowed to as an apprentice. Most places.

EBFD6

That's weird, I've never seen a shovel that plugs in!

NewberElec

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...t_adv_XSN10001

I have...... j/k

It does snow alot up here ........

Toronto Sparky

To work live you are supposed to be wearing one of those marshmallow suits.
Don't know what the real name is.. What I do know is working while wearing one a very hard..
Much easier to shut it off..

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Don't fight .. Play nice!

Zog

Mark said it perfect

But, things don't always work like that and some guys still do live work, they think all this safety stuff is for sissys.

Now being in Canada you fall under CSA Z462, which is fairly new, it mirros our NFPA 70E which has been around since 1979 and really been enforced and a big deal since 2000, so it has taken awhile to teach the old dogs new tricks, so I imagine the culture change of not working live will take awhile in Canada too. I suggest that you learn everything you can about the Z462 rules and enforcement of it so you understand what the right thing to do is, and how to keep yourself safe.

Here is a good place to start http://www.arcflashforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

busymnky

Your concern is normal. Standard practice is to de-energize circuitry before working on it. Never do something you aren't comfortable doing just because you were told to. After you've "grown up" as an electrician you can choose to take risks with live power, or choose not to take them.
Whatever you decide to do- someone will call you a macho idiot, or a wimp sissy. Just be sure you go home every day having done your best and don't worry about the words of those who weren't there.

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Wood alcohol: Cannot be made non-poisonous.
Of all the lessons dad could have left out...

forqnc

Could someone define 'Live work'.
I am an Industrial technician and many times for troubleshooting I Have a machine turned on, how can I check for a bad heater band without using an ampmeter. Tracing down a contact not pulled in for a circuit, how could I check for voltage?
Now do I disconnect/connect wires up Live? NO. Swap out bad parts live? NO.

So what is a good definition for 'Live Work'?

Zog

Anything done inside the Limited Aproach Boundary

Frasbee

Yeah, working hot is dumb.

I've had an instance where the hot side of the 277 lights I was working on came in contact with the neutral.

BOOM!

And another time I was trying to move some hot wires out of my way to get to the dead wires while doing some demo work, and my needle nose cut in just enough that when they touched the edge of the box, they grounded out and, well...

BOOM!

No worries though, they were Craftsman, I got a new pair free the next day.

Oh, and another time I was adjusting a receptacle, and little did I know, someone had turned on the power while I was working on it. I had grabbed the receptacle on the hot and neutral side and completed the circuit and felt the tingling work it's way up my hand.

I was really new to electrical at that time.

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drsparky

You haven't learned your lesson yet? LOTO?

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"Pay attention son, this is for your own good." - Foghorn Leghorn

Frasbee

Well I learned a lesson every time.

The first was not to grab a receptacle by the screws, regardless.

The second was to cap off the wires while you're working with them hot.

The third was to use needle nose pliers with less pronounced teeth, or simply wrap them with tape.

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drsparky

You still don't get it. I wish you luck.

__________________
"Pay attention son, this is for your own good." - Foghorn Leghorn

Frasbee

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InPhase277

Use your skinny cabinet flathead screwdriver or swivel flat in the ground hole to adjust a receptacle.

captkirk

I dont think its bravado. How do you guys do service changes...? Especially some of you NJ electricians specifically ones that have to deal with PSEG...? scheduling one while working with PSEG and the customer must be a nightmare especially for all you one man shop guys.

InPhase277

I've learned on these forums that any live work is the same as being in Al Qaeda. I don't even change a light bulb without:

1. Closing off a five block radius
2. Posting a bomb squad outside
3. Having a disaster recovery team posted nearby
4. Suiting up in full PPE
5. Sending in the bulb changing robot
6. Shutting down the grid on the entire East Coast
7. Locking the door of the remote fallout shelter where I'm stationed
8. Lowering my arc flash helmet as I engage the remote control

An eight step, multi-million dollar project for a single ceiling fan bulb means you have to be an incredible salesman. Doing it any other way means you are "macho", or stupid, or both.