Power on or off? - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

Lhaimbhee · 10-02-2009, 06:30 PM

I was curious as to wondering when it comes to confronting a problem with 2 three way switches that were installed the wrong way. I know which switch is wrong based on the logic of how the lights turn off and on for a staircase. However now i have to find out which traveler wire is the wrong one. And i was wondering if you ever take a face plate off of an outlet that is live, i know the potential of the straps not being securely mounted so it could be held in place with the face plate and removing it can cause the switch to fall and hit the side of the box causing it to short. But i was curious if anyone else takes off face plates to boxes live, cause knowing that fact i am too afraid to take any faceplate off unless the power is off. However to check which wire is the hot/switchleg on the switch that was placed in the traveler's terminal, i would need it live so i can use my non contact voltage tester. But it all comes down to turning off the power then running back up two flights to take the faceplate off then turn it back on to check, finally running back down to turn the power off which seems too repetitive. any tips or advice in regards to removing face plates live?

480sparky · 10-02-2009, 06:34 PM

Non-contact testers are pretty much worthless in the first place. I wouldn't trust them to give me an accurate sense of whether a given wire is a traveler or not. Many times, more than one wire will appear to be hot.

A meters is all I would use. Check voltage to ground and be 100% sure.

sparky105 · 10-02-2009, 07:10 PM

throw that tester in the can it will get u whacked use a continuity on a dead curciut it is the safer way

220/221 · 10-02-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

any tips or advice in regards to removing face plates live?

Dont do it if you are not qualified.

Electricians do it every day. The power pretty much has to be on in order to troubleshoot.

knowshorts · 10-02-2009, 07:36 PM

If you are just looking at each 3-way switch and don't know what the 3 wires are, kill the power if you need to. Cap off all 6 wires. Turn power back on. The one wire that is hot, is you hot. The other 2 wires in that box are your travelers. Nut these 2 together. Continuity check other box to find travelers. Once they are identified, you have one wire left. That is your switch leg. Works 95% of the time, unless some hack got there 1st and really screwed things up.

randas · 10-02-2009, 09:07 PM

Uh, yea I'll take the plate off hot.. Ill also pull the device out of the box and even change it if need be.

Just depends on how comfortable you are.

rewire · 10-03-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randas

Uh, yea I'll take the plate off hot.. Ill also pull the device out of the box and even change it if need be.

Just depends on how comfortable you are.

Lhaimbhee · 10-05-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowshorts

If you are just looking at each 3-way switch and don't know what the 3 wires are, kill the power if you need to. Cap off all 6 wires. Turn power back on. The one wire that is hot, is you hot. The other 2 wires in that box are your travelers. Nut these 2 together. Continuity check other box to find travelers. Once they are identified, you have one wire left. That is your switch leg. Works 95% of the time, unless some hack got there 1st and really screwed things up.

ok thanks for your advice i will try that when i get the chance i am sure that the one 3 way switch at the bottom of the steps is wired correctly i just think that one of the travelers that go to the top of the step is in the common position instead of the traveler position.

also thanks everyone else for their tips and advise i will try that when i get the chance and find out which circuit breaker controls it's power.

mcclary's electrical · 10-05-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lhaimbhee

ok thanks for your advice i will try that when i get the chance i am sure that the one 3 way switch at the bottom of the steps is wired correctly i just think that one of the travelers that go to the top of the step is in the common position instead of the traveler position.

also thanks everyone else for their tips and advise i will try that when i get the chance and find out which circuit breaker controls it's power.

You should be able to see that without taking the switch out of the wall. Just make sure the 2 wire is on the common, the 3 wire should go to travellers.

MDShunk · 10-05-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical

You should be able to see that without taking the switch out of the wall. Just make sure the 2 wire is on the common, the 3 wire should go to travellers.

Unless it's all in pipe.

heavysparky · 10-05-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lhaimbhee

i am too afraid to take any faceplate off unless the power is off. However to check which wire is the hot/switchleg on the switch that was placed in the traveler's terminal, i would need it live so i can use my non contact voltage tester. But it all comes down to turning off the power then running back up two flights to take the faceplate off then turn it back on to check, finally running back down to turn the power off which seems too repetitive. any tips or advice in regards to removing face plates live?

what exactly are you trying to get at? Most trained sparkies know how to handle this easily. There is alot to be said for respecting electricity and lot to be said of fearing it. If you know what you are doing and practice saftey. Taking off face plates should be a easy thing

Lhaimbhee · 10-05-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavysparky

what exactly are you trying to get at? Most trained sparkies know how to handle this easily. There is alot to be said for respecting electricity and lot to be said of fearing it. If you know what you are doing and practice safety. Taking off face plates should be a easy thing

yea but i am new to the field, ive just got out of trade school and i am just am extra safe when it comes to electricity because i dont want to get shock nor have been. and i want to keep it that way. I also tend to over think the possibilities sometimes and i think that tends to get in the way that is why i always work with the power off to ensure extra safety measures. However in this situation i feel that running up and down the stairs can seem to be a bit too much so i was only wondering if it is a common practice of taking off face plates live when troubleshooting.

Kevin J · 10-05-2009, 11:18 PM

To answer your question, yes it is a common practice to take off plates from live devices when troubleshooting. Usually, you can tell when you start to remove the plate if the yoke is not tight to the wall and the device is just floating. If this is the case, use your own judgment whether you want to continue live.

Lhaimbhee · 10-06-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin J

To answer your question, yes it is a common practice to take off plates from live devices when troubleshooting. Usually, you can tell when you start to remove the plate if the yoke is not tight to the wall and the device is just floating. If this is the case, use your own judgment whether you want to continue live.

thank you that was the answer i was looking for, i just wanted some assurance as to what i wanted to do was actually what others do. Thanks.

Lhaimbhee · 10-06-2009, 11:28 AM

hey how do i delete this post i accidently made a copy of the other post and wanted to delete this one.

RIVETER · 10-06-2009, 01:27 PM

Know Shorts gave a good answer; but if you find yourself going up and down the stairs for whatever reason just cut a length of wire to run up the stairs and use it to add to your ringing of the wire technique and be prepared to label the wires at this time. RIVETER

Lhaimbhee · 10-07-2009, 10:11 AM

Oh ok then thanks, btw, know shorts method is referred to as ringing of wire technique?