Clarifying "Journeyman" terminology - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Forum > Electrician Apprentice Forum


Like Tree20Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-10-2016, 11:15 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 17
Rewards Points: 34
Default Clarifying "Journeyman" terminology

I don't understand the use of "apprentice" "journeyman" and "master".
The NC Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors doesn't use this terminology, and neither does my boss. Is this a union thing? Is there actually a formal "journeyman" license in some states? Or is it just an informal way of saying, "I'm not new anymore, but I'm still learning."

For context, I work in residential in North Carolina, and I've got about 4000 hours of experience but probably only about half of that on w-2. The other half as 1099. I am not part of a union, I just started working for a licensed Electrician a couple years ago. At first under the table, then he hired me on officially after a while. Before that I worked for a different licensed electrician, 1099, part time for a while.
MattM-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-10-2016, 11:23 PM   #2
Senile Member
 
macmikeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 20,495
Rewards Points: 3,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM-NC View Post
I don't understand the use of "apprentice" "journeyman" and "master".
The NC Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors doesn't use this terminology, and neither does my boss. Is this a union thing? Is there actually a formal "journeyman" license in some states? Or is it just an informal way of saying, "I'm not new anymore, but I'm still learning."

For context, I work in residential in North Carolina, and I've got about 4000 hours of experience but probably only about half of that on w-2. The other half as 1099. I am not part of a union, I just started working for a licensed Electrician a couple years ago. At first under the table, then he hired me on officially after a while. Before that I worked for a different licensed electrician, 1099, part time for a while.
NC contractors are salivating for a guy like you who doesn't know about licensing and proper pay rates. Carry on....
John Valdes, active1 and 360max like this.
__________________
“That all changes—starting right here and right now.” Jan. 20 “will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.” Donald Trump
macmikeman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 11:46 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: US
Posts: 2,083
Rewards Points: 1,430
Default

1099 is a contractor. If you had a boss, who told you what, where, and when, you were a misclassified employee. You got exploited, basically. I'm sure he was a nice guy, though.
active1 and 360max like this.
__________________
in Order to form a more perfect Union
TGGT is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TGGT For This Useful Post:
John Valdes (12-12-2016), MechanicalDVR (12-17-2016), Suncoast Power (12-11-2016)
Old 12-10-2016, 11:52 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 17
Rewards Points: 34
Default

The 1099 boss probably lost his shirt on me. I barely knew how to change a light bulb when I started working with him, and he really showed me the basics at $15.00. He was older, and needed someone younger and willing to crawl around in attics. But I look back at how many fixtures I broke and how long it took me to make a splice and I laugh.
MattM-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 12:04 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: US
Posts: 2,083
Rewards Points: 1,430
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM-NC View Post
The 1099 boss probably lost his shirt on me. I barely knew how to change a light bulb when I started working with him, and he really showed me the basics at $15.00. He was older, and needed someone younger and willing to crawl around in attics. But I look back at how many fixtures I broke and how long it took me to make a splice and I laugh.
Well, just doing a simple tax bracket calculation, assuming you worked a full year at that wage, nothing more or less, and assuming you actually did your own taxes, you would've been making an average of $12.97 an hour. This is income tax only, I'm not factoring in health insurance or any other tax (social security, medicar etc). That's not bad starting out. It's still cheaper than if he had to pay for all the insurances and payroll taxes, etc, if you had been an employee.

EDIT: To answer your initial question, I don't know about NC, but in other states, yes, Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master are all state licenses.
__________________
in Order to form a more perfect Union
TGGT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 01:01 AM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 17
Rewards Points: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGGT View Post

To answer your initial question, I don't know about NC, but in other states, yes, Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master are all state licenses.

Apparently, there are 10 different classifications of electrical license in NC and none of them are called "apprentice" or "Journeyman". However, that doesn't stop the NCBEEC from recognizing one's hours as a "journeyman" towards licensure. So they do recognize the status but don't bestow it....
I just sent them an email asking for clarity. If I hear back from them I'll update the thread.

As far as the replies here regarding my exploitation as a worker, I'm very curious what you are getting at and what opportunities I may be missing. But I'll start a different thread for that.
MattM-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 02:37 AM   #7
NRA Member
 
backstay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wonderful Northern Minnesota
Posts: 10,922
Rewards Points: 794
Default

Minnesota

Apprentice: Time on job, 0-7999 hrs

Journeyman: Time on job, + 8000 hrs ( after passing state test)

Master: Time on job, +10,000 hrs (after passing state test)
__________________
Science Czar of Planet Earth, and Ambassador to the Planet Macmikeman
You cannot conquer a free man, the most you can do is kill him.
backstay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 06:08 AM   #8
Semper Fidelis
 
Suncoast Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 13,448
Rewards Points: 4,550
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM-NC View Post
I don't understand the use of "apprentice" "journeyman" and "master".
The NC Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors doesn't use this terminology, and neither does my boss. Is this a union thing? Is there actually a formal "journeyman" license in some states? Or is it just an informal way of saying, "I'm not new anymore, but I'm still learning."

For context, I work in residential in North Carolina, and I've got about 4000 hours of experience but probably only about half of that on w-2. The other half as 1099. I am not part of a union, I just started working for a licensed Electrician a couple years ago. At first under the table, then he hired me on officially after a while. Before that I worked for a different licensed electrician, 1099, part time for a while.
2000 hours is a decent years work, 4000 is two years.
Don't go throwing the 1099 word around, that isn't legal to do in the electrical trade, at least in Florida.
Florida and NC have similar laws and standards.
Your classification can only be "helper" at this point.
If you can find a formal apprenticship program, that will formalize your education and status in the trade. We generally only see this outside of union shops unless your contractor takes on government work.
Generally, if you are working in the trades on a PW job, you are paid journeyman wages unless you are officially enrolled and working as an apprentice.

With that said, it's very common for an older one man show to pick up a young guy and work him as he do you. Not 100% legal but, it is what it is.

The IBEW construction requires each local union to offer membership to all working in the electrical trades.
That doesn't always happen. The NE tightly manages its labor market. The south keeps itself poor and independent and culturally cannot work as one team.

Some fact, some fiction, some lifetime observations. Bottom line is, if there is somekind of licensing in your state or county, you should work towards obtaining them as soon as you can. Having those licenses will distinguish you from the other helpers.
brian john likes this.
Suncoast Power is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 08:44 AM   #9
Safety Pin Member
 
PlugsAndLights's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 2,066
Rewards Points: 2,510
Default

Note to Matt, I was going to send you a pm, but you don't have that enabled.
Your choice.
P&L
__________________
Malignant narcissism is a psychological syndrome comprising an extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial personality disorder, aggression, and sadism.[1] Often grandiose, and always ready to raise hostility levels, the malignant narcissist undermines organizations in which they are involved, and dehumanizes the people with whom they associate.
PlugsAndLights is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 08:52 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
drspec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,683
Rewards Points: 252
Default

Matt,

I would be more than happy to help you understand NC laws. Shoot me a PM if you want.
drspec is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to drspec For This Useful Post:
360max (12-17-2016)
Old 12-11-2016, 01:13 PM   #11
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wiltshire, England
Posts: 991
Rewards Points: 432
Default Clarifying "Journeyman" terminology

Out of interest is it just hours that pushes you up the ranks or is there exams/inspections on your workmanship along the way?

Also how do you account for the hours?
Essex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 01:17 PM   #12
Senile Member
 
macmikeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 20,495
Rewards Points: 3,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essex View Post
Out of interest is it just hours that pushes you up the ranks or is there exams/inspections on your workmanship along the way?

Also how do you account for the hours?
Thinking of trying out yourself are you?
__________________
“That all changes—starting right here and right now.” Jan. 20 “will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.” Donald Trump
macmikeman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 01:23 PM   #13
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wiltshire, England
Posts: 991
Rewards Points: 432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmikeman View Post
Thinking of trying out yourself are you?


No thanks. I want to go forward not backwards
Essex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 03:34 PM   #14
NRA Member
 
backstay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wonderful Northern Minnesota
Posts: 10,922
Rewards Points: 794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essex View Post
Out of interest is it just hours that pushes you up the ranks or is there exams/inspections on your workmanship along the way?

Also how do you account for the hours?
More proof of how little this troll knows about electrical. Not from the U.K. either.
__________________
Science Czar of Planet Earth, and Ambassador to the Planet Macmikeman
You cannot conquer a free man, the most you can do is kill him.
backstay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 04:19 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
brian john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gilbert's Corner VA
Posts: 26,268
Rewards Points: 1,578
Default

From Wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrician

Quote:
Electricians are trained to one of three levels: Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master Electrician. In the US and Canada, apprentices work and receive a reduced compensation while learning their trade. They generally take several hundred hours of classroom instruction and are contracted to follow apprenticeship standards for a period of between three and six years, during which time they are paid as a percentage of the Journeyman's pay. Journeymen are electricians who have completed their Apprenticeship and who have been found by the local, State, or National licensing body to be competent in the electrical trade. Master Electricians have performed well in the trade for a period of time, often seven to ten years, and have passed an exam to demonstrate superior knowledge of the National Electrical Code, or NEC.
__________________
Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now
brian john is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to brian john For This Useful Post:
Essex (12-11-2016), glen1971 (12-11-2016), John Valdes (12-12-2016)
Old 12-12-2016, 09:13 AM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 17
Rewards Points: 34
Default

not sure how to PM or to allow PM's...I poked around in the options but didn't see anything....
MattM-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2016, 09:20 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
cabletie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: N.J.
Posts: 1,050
Rewards Points: 84
Default

PM's may be restricted until you hit a certain post count.
cabletie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2016, 09:21 AM   #18
Band Member
 
emtnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 3,023
Rewards Points: 7,420
Default

Yep, I think it's 15 posts ... Mods know if your a bot or cheezy salesman by then
__________________
_____________________________________
I swear to Drunk ... I'm NOT God

_____________________________________
emtnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2016, 01:35 PM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 17
Rewards Points: 34
Default

I just got this response from an email I sent last week to the North Carolina Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors:

"We consider a “journeyman electrician” an individual that know the supplies to pack on the truck, run the job without assistance. We typically leave it up to the employer to decide if the employee is of that capacity. Journeyman electrician is PRIMARY EXPERIENCE. Thank you, Michelle Ames/NC Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors"
MattM-NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2016, 01:45 PM   #20
Senile Member
 
macmikeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 20,495
Rewards Points: 3,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM-NC View Post
I just got this response from an email I sent last week to the North Carolina Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors:

"We consider a “journeyman electrician” an individual that know the supplies to pack on the truck, run the job without assistance. We typically leave it up to the employer to decide if the employee is of that capacity. Journeyman electrician is PRIMARY EXPERIENCE. Thank you, Michelle Ames/NC Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors"
Um... lets see now


Beer- check
Bag of weed- check
Time Life electrical wiring book for homeowners and hacks- check
Blue boxes- check
inwall romex connectors- check

Ok good to go, I'm a journeyman!
wildleg likes this.
__________________
“That all changes—starting right here and right now.” Jan. 20 “will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.” Donald Trump
macmikeman is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
jargon, journeyman, terminology

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com