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Old 12-19-2016, 08:35 PM   #21
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Yeah, What does that mean, "geared for the boys"?


All thumbs in the field isn't going to fly. Do not sell yourself short! A lot of guys are "all thumbs" when they start out. As daunting as the physical things can seem, skills in the field AND in the books (Oh yeah, learn the NEC like its your job, cause it is) are imperative to your success as an electrician... Your journeyman wasn't treating you like a lady, he was treating you like you didn't know what you were doing. My guess is that he also wasn't a fan of you letting him do all the work... My advice to you is, drop the "token female" crap, put on your big girl panties, go out there and show them you deserve to be out there with the boys. Make it so your boss doesn't want to lay you off!
Well said Jamato.
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Old 12-21-2016, 07:21 AM   #22
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I can recall a circle of FF's taking off their scot gear after an interior attack , only to reveal a woman , this was quite some time ago when most dept's would laugh at a woman trying to join.

None the less, she had done the job, right along with the rest of us.....but oh, the look on some of the old timers faces>>>><<<< priceless!!

Methinks we should find a way to mask our gender in the trades too.....~CS~
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:23 PM   #23
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I can recall a circle of FF's taking off their scot gear after an interior attack , only to reveal a woman , this was quite some time ago when most dept's would laugh at a woman trying to join.

None the less, she had done the job, right along with the rest of us.....but oh, the look on some of the old timers faces>>>><<<< priceless!!

Methinks we should find a way to mask our gender in the trades too.....~CS~

There is no doubt their are some A-holes that will complicate a woman entering into the trades, but I HOPE this is passing as we get new young bloods in and any old timers will see that a woman can work right along side with the best of em.
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Old 12-21-2016, 08:19 PM   #24
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Well we're old school Brian , think about it.....

We've been raised to open doors , pull out seats, restrain bad manners, etc for the ladies

Doesn't make us Aholes (well, i guess that depends who we ask) , it simply makes us influenced by our cultural upbringing

In fairness, the same affliction applies to the other 1/2 , who would badger , lament, and disparage their sisters for pursing that which they see breaking social limitations.....


~CS~
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Old 12-24-2016, 11:27 AM   #25
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Well we're old school Brian , think about it.....

We've been raised to open doors , pull out seats, restrain bad manners, etc for the ladies

Doesn't make us Aholes (well, i guess that depends who we ask) , it simply makes us influenced by our cultural upbringing

~CS~

I once held a door for a woman, she gave me a look and said " I do not need you or any man to hold the door for me". I simply said " I hold the door for men, women, handicapped, children or anyone I like".


I should have added B**CH
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:54 PM   #26
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hey guys, checking in, i'm really floored by the overwhelming number of helpful, on point responses I've received here. thanks so much! i'll have to be sure to contribute here more often just to stay engaged with the trade community as i'm on a long winter layoff for who knows how long. it's possible the hall is mad at me **gulp** a bit of a frosty reception last time i attended class; walked in on the director gossiping about me; that's never good.

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it is a well known fact that on the average, females generally pay more attention to detail. If you really are one of the lucky females to have good math skills (that's a 50/50 wager), then you are well suited to the trade.
I have really good math ability but terrible attention to detail (inattentive type ADD means it's all or nothing for me). it's hard to see how my gender is implicated in this; it's possible I'm an extreme outlier as I've always struggled to relate to other women.

makes for some weird dynamics on the field as a lot of these guys don't deviate too much from the norm but I guess they don't meet girls like me.

I agree that the trade is likely a good fit for me; this is why I won't give up, despite initial setbacks.

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Accept the fact that you are blazing a trail for future women and if you have an attitude that makes fellow workers think you are PIA not only will your career be difficult you may complicate it for future women.
I really just want a more challenging, technical job and apprenticeship fits my needs better than the traditional "go to college, farm yourself out to employers" route.

when i arrived the first day of class and realized just how out of whack the gender ratio was i had to get really, really drunk. i really hate all the attention and pressure and would really rather just get on with things in relative anonymnity.
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:22 PM   #27
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Your journeyman wasn't treating you like a lady, he was treating you like you didn't know what you were doing. My guess is that he also wasn't a fan of you letting him do all the work...
this is a possible explanation, but there were simple tasks he could have let me do and didn't.
i also caught him hitting on me which is
it's easy to shift the blame tho, right, apparently i can't follow directions without ritalin.
you guys think i'm making too much of this gender stuff but it's a neverending headache.

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Yeah, What does that mean, "geared for the boys"?
it seems like for the first couple of years until you learn stuff you're more or less a laborer, this works less well if you're me.
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Old 12-25-2016, 01:45 AM   #28
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Well during the first few years as a laborer as you put it, think of ways to do the work smarter not harder.

Like when pulling wire for example, use pipe and bender handles and extra leverage/grip points. If possible use some sort of pulley and set it up so your pulling straight down while the wire is coming straight up. That way you can use your whole body behind each pull.
Get help if you need to move pipe as it can get heavy, I'm sure that they would rather see you ask for help than take multiple trips to and from the pipe rack.

Learn how to dig properly and always have a good sharp shovel on hand (ask tesla about his digging techniques).

When bending big pipe don't be afraid to move close to a wall and use it to steady yourself also put the end of the pipe against the so it won't be moving all over the place on you.

When making up boxes with tan wire nuts use your 5/16 nut driver to get some extra torque when tightening them.

The biggest thing I can think of to pass on to a young green apprentice is keep your mouth shut and ears open. Learn with your ears. Ask questions about anything you don't understand, or why it's done a certain way, but don't go off on your life story and drama.

Don't complain or get an attitude when asked to do a crappy job, we've all been there before and we will all be back. Granted if it seams like they are picking you for all the crappy jobs with no break in sight say something. To the like off I feel like I've got this down pretty good is there some thing else that I can learn today, but of course you need to word this with kid gloves, don't want to be the one that's always complaining or have it received that way.

This happened to an apprentice who is a year lower than me on the last site he was on. He called in because his arms were tired from pulling branch circuit wire all day. He got ran off that site the next day he showed up. If that happens to you, either suck it up or make up some excuse why you can't come in, not your arms are tired.

Learn what tools are what, what parts are what, where they're used and why. Once you get good at that, have the next tool, fitting, part in hand for your journeyman before he has to ask or look for it.

One last thing I have for you is this. My job as an apprentice, is to make the journey mans job easier and learn as much as I can while doing it.

Take away what you will from this but these are some things that I've found to be very helpful.
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:10 AM   #29
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One last thing I have for you is this. My job as an apprentice, is to make the journey mans job easier and learn as much as I can while doing it.

.
An EC viewpoint follows suit, one is either getting the work done ,problem solving, etc, or one is not.

We could care less about 'what' you are....

Of course the usual hazing applies.....for ex, if your of slight build ,you'll probably be jumping up/down on an 1 1/4" bender , while the crew snickers out of sight....

~CS~
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:27 AM   #30
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Well during the first few years as a laborer as you put it, think of ways to do the work smarter not harder.



Take away what you will from this but these are some things that I've found to be very helpful.
Our apprentices are working hand and hand with electricians, doing electrical work, now if there is "laborer type work" then the apprentice is oboigated to getit done.

Take testing circuit breakers this is a two person job, depending on the type of CB, both are pulling one test the other connects disconnects, adjust settings on the CB, Ducters and Meggers. And because testing day after day becomes boring usually the apprentice is shown how to run the high current tester.

BUT generally both people are cleaning up as the sooner everything is cleaned up sooner you can get your bum out of there.

47 years in the trade and I still push a broom if it is needed.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:48 AM   #31
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Our apprentices are working hand and hand with electricians, doing electrical work, now if there is "laborer type work" then the apprentice is oboigated to getit done.

Take testing circuit breakers this is a two person job, depending on the type of CB, both are pulling one test the other connects disconnects, adjust settings on the CB, Ducters and Meggers. And because testing day after day becomes boring usually the apprentice is shown how to run the high current tester.

BUT generally both people are cleaning up as the sooner everything is cleaned up sooner you can get your bum out of there.

47 years in the trade and I still push a broom if it is needed.
Leading by example is a very positive ethic to have.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:49 AM   #32
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47 years in the trade and I still push a broom if it is needed.
ah, well, methinks the nonPC term is 'job b*tch' , welcome to the club! ~CS~
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:52 AM   #33
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Leading by example is a very positive ethic to have.
It is MechD , but (for ex) as i've had a career of crawlspace acrobatics ,i have little desire to display such to every noob out there....~CS~
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Old 12-25-2016, 08:21 AM   #34
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It is MechD , but (for ex) as i've had a career of crawlspace acrobatics ,i have little desire to display such to every noob out there....~CS~
I'd never expect a guy to do something I wouldn't do myself and I was taught that at a very young age by Uncles that did pretty well in business.

There have been many times I've showed a guy how I wanted something done and think showing over telling earned me some respect points many times.
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Old 12-25-2016, 08:49 AM   #35
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I think you need to stop playing the ADD card.
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:23 AM   #36
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My favorite thing for an apprentice to do is ask why; "why aren't we pulling a white with these?" "Why are we using a 4-11/16?" "Why is the green smaller?" "Why is that illegal?" I personally find our practices are much easier to learn when you understand why you're doing it.

Purchase every tool you're required to have and then some.

Never put your hands in your pockets.

If you're digging and the apprentice next to you stops cause he's tired, keep digging.

Get some good boots that are so comfortable, you forget to take them off when you get

Also, I have ADD and work is about the only place I'm functional.
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:24 AM   #37
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*get home.
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:35 AM   #38
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We have quite a few girls in the trades here, probably because we had a boom and it allowed women to make "nontraditional" career choices. A woman in the trades hardly gets a second look around here.

I hired a female apprentice but it didn't work out. It had very little to do with gender, though. I took my time to explain things to her but she would just go ahead and do it her way anyway. It was hardly worth it to have an apprentice because I had to inspect all her work and tell her to do it again. Her attitude may have come from a government sponsored program for women entering the trades. She thought she knew more than she did but most pre-apprenticeship programs are pretty useless.

On the other hand, I worked beside a tiny finishing carpenter who was amazing. She could hang all the cabinets in a kitchen by herself. I don't know how she did it. Her attention to detail was incredible. She had everybody's respect.

A search of this site regarding apprentices will show that the same rules apply to both men and women. A good apprentice is a good apprentice; gender means nothing.

Also, what Mac says is completely true. In all likelihood, you're a construction worker. All this stuff about automation, engineers and architects comes later.
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Old 12-25-2016, 10:05 AM   #39
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ADD? I have ADD, assessed by a psychiatrist with ADD herself (those sessions were entertaining to say the least ). She said I was "pure" ADD, nothing manic, just pure ADD.

There are lots of us space cases in the trades. The reason it works for us is we perform well with a blend of physical and mental stimulation. ADD is not an attention deficit. If you have ever experienced hyperfocus you know what I am talking about.

The difficulty we have is the mind cloud. We are intelligent people but there are times when we can't put two and two together. One of my tricks is talking to myself. It seems to match the speed of my brain to the speed of the task at hand. It slows my brain down. The other thing I try to do is make an assembly line out of my work. If I'm assembling fixtures, for example, I assemble a number of fixtures at the same time (that's just an efficient way of doing things anyway).

Sometimes when I'm hit with a mind cloud, I'll just stop, walk around and inspect my work. At least it makes it look like I'm doing something when, in actual fact, I'm just waiting for my brain to function. It also helps in the search for misplaced tools .

I don't take meds. I tried Adderall once and it was amazing but I have just learned to fumble my way through without it.

If you're telling me you have poor attention to detail, I don't believe you for a minute. If you excel at math, that proves otherwise. Sure, we can be "all or nothing" but you can develop a routine and train your brain to meet in the middle.

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Old 12-25-2016, 10:28 AM   #40
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Do you find you hyperfocus so intensely that your ability to formulate and string words descriptively jump around , sound funny 99?

~CS~
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