480sparky

But you still need to pigtail a ground.

__________________
This message is hidden because Forgery, Honda Racer, JackBoot, LawnGuyLandSparky, milehiwire and user 5941 are on your ignore list.

oldman

Self grounding receptacles on a flush box? I agree on raised covers.

And I believe EMT can be used as a ground.

Make one think clear, I am not defending Peter D-like work. I've just interviewed enough "journeymen" over the years to know that qualified ones are few and far between. Despite what they believe, and their resumes say. So I'm a little jaded these days.

william1978

The code book doesn't require a ground wire in Emt take a look at I think its 250.118 if my memory is correct.

william1978

Yes per 250.118.

BryanMD

Yet another example of the farce we all operate under when we refer to a "national" code and when we have 50+ standards of licensing associated to the work.

As an employer, I would appreciate a helpful and well intentioned look out from an employee that something I asked him to do was contrary to what he believed to be the code or other good practice... even if it was just something he beieved to be a code issue because "we always did it this way..."

But bottom line? If after being told that I wanted him to do X and he insisted on doing Y... he'd be getting his final paycheck that same day.

Right, wrong or purple... the boss is the boss.
If you can't accept that then also accept that this won't be the last time you'll get fired.

__________________
March 2010: On the road with my RV. California is first primary destination then it is off to Eastern OR, Northern ID and Western MT for drycamping and fly fishing until Labor Day.

william1978

Or become your own boss. And even then you would have to answer to your better half.

480sparky

Yes to the former. No to the latter.

__________________
This message is hidden because Forgery, Honda Racer, JackBoot, LawnGuyLandSparky, milehiwire and user 5941 are on your ignore list.

jay47544

yep you are correct, think I will become the boss that way I know it will be installed correctly

fraydo

There's always more to the story. If you're arguing the finr points of the code with your boss then I think the boss has the upper hand. If your arguing clear cut legal against illegal, I would rather get fired than do something illegal. Besides in my neck of the woods if a lawsuit arises the lawyers go after anyone they can.

480sparky

What is totally bizzare is I am doing things today the exact same way I did back when I worked for 'the man' (Code changes notwithstanding), and I don't have anyone... no one... not a single person.... bîtching and moaning about the quality my work.

By eliminating the several layers of people between me and the customer (foreman, superviser, manager, owner, GC, etc), things seem to run a whooooooole lot smoother.

__________________
This message is hidden because Forgery, Honda Racer, JackBoot, LawnGuyLandSparky, milehiwire and user 5941 are on your ignore list.

william1978

BryanMD

I'll grant that the legalities might vary in Texas... but I seriously doubt an employee following a direct order has any sort of culpability.

But getting down to brass tacks... would you be willing to quit (or tell the boss he'll have to fire you) rather than do something you believe (or even are certain) is wrong?

I doubt there is anyone reading this board who hasn't been in that position at some point. I know I have.

__________________
March 2010: On the road with my RV. California is first primary destination then it is off to Eastern OR, Northern ID and Western MT for drycamping and fly fishing until Labor Day.

william1978

Does this mean your going to pull grounds in metal conduit?

william1978

Been there, done that and got a T shirt.

oldman

No, it means he's gonna learn real quick how much it costs to do things. I'd love to hear back from him in a year or two.

fraydo

You're right about the culpability issue, but that may get resolved after you've been served. That means unnecessary legal expenses.

As for the brass tacks...i see your point. I've never been in a situation with a major conflict of conscience but have I've both left a co. before B/C i stick to my guns and I have stayed on and swallowed my pride

william1978

Been there before. There has been some employers that I have worked for that I would have liked to tell them to F off, but I had a family to feed so I would have to bite my tongue because I have others counting on me.

InPhase277

We have all probably fudged the code one way or another. I know I have, especially to make something more right, than not right at all. For example, I was sent to a job 100 miles from anywhere to run a circuit for a ventilation fan in a chicken house. The boss insisted I take all the partial rolls of wire we had. Well guess what? I barely had enough #8 for the circuit, but all the rolls of #10 combined wouldn't make it for the ground. The boss said: "Don't worry about it, it's just a fan up high, don't worry about the ground." Well, I pulled a #12 ground instead. I could have said "no way man" and quit, but I fudged and made it more safe that not.

As opposed to the time the same guy had me check a problem where a 3-way wasn't working in a romex office job. Turns out the rough crew used a 12-2 between the 3-ways instead of 3-wire. I called in and said I'd be there running a 3-wire between the switches. He said "no, just rewire it and use the ground as the other traveler". This time we got into a good argument where he told me to either do it or don't bother coming back. So I left, and dropped his service van at the shop and got a ride home. Three days later he called and begged me to come back to work.

Mr. Sparkle

I worked for a douche when I was younger that would always cut corners and blame his workers if the GC's or inspectors caught him. He would do this right in front of us too......I was young and did not have the knowledge or gusto to call him out on it......but I am enjoying hearing that his company has been on a steady slide downhill for the last 5 or so years......what comes around goes around.......the walls have ears.

__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."
— Mark Twain

Magnettica

Hell yeah. There's a few good GC's out there but you're right, working directly for the person footing the bill is the way to go.

__________________