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Old 01-25-2016, 01:09 PM   #1
EEC
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Default Electronic Circuit Boards in power tools

Major tool manufacturers like Greenlee and Hilti produce tools with electronic components. They won't publish schematics or any info on those boards. I think this is wrong because when you buy these tools and they don't service them any longer because they are outdated, the owner has no info on how to repair the tools.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:00 PM   #2
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Major tool manufacturers like Greenlee and Hilti produce tools with electronic components. They won't publish schematics or any info on those boards. I think this is wrong because when you buy these tools and they don't service them any longer because they are outdated, the owner has no info on how to repair the tools.
That's because they're "proprietary PWM" circuits, and everybody has their own version. (patent reasons) They weren't meant to be "fixed" just replaced. But if they do happen to "burn up" it's time for a new tool, maybe a different brand altogether. Because a replacement board will probably be close to the cost of the whole tool
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:08 PM   #3
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Default That goes for anything.

That goes for anything you buy. Scale that up to a multi thousand dollar machine control or drive and they say sorry you have to replace that it is obsolete. Getting prints can be hard but try to get a replacement part with no id on it.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:13 PM   #4
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Default This is a travesty of Justice to consumers

I have barely used tools with these boards and the manufacturers don't even supply the tools any longer with service or parts. Believe this, I won't but another tool with electronic components where the manufacturer doesn't supply a electrical schematic drawing of the electronic components. Electronics can be repaired with knowing the specific parts of the electronics on board.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:29 PM   #5
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Default Hilti TE92 with electronic speed control?

What amount of speed control do you think would be needed in a 10 amp 115V hammerdrill? Hold the button all the way down and the electronic speed control suppose to do what exactly?
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:04 PM   #6
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Electronics can be repaired with knowing the specific parts of the electronics on board.
Not if the part is programmed with proprietary closed source software.
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:14 PM   #7
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Not if the part is programmed with proprietary closed source software.
That would be the only part of the electronic device that I could see them keeping secret. But all the other parts should be diagrammed for owners to see if a resistor or other repairable components is damaged
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:51 PM   #8
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That would be the only part of the electronic device that I could see them keeping secret. But all the other parts should be diagrammed for owners to see if a resistor or other repairable components is damaged
Ya, it would be nice. Having working in designing electronics, I can say that there are a lot of issues surrounding that. Part specs are often very specific, and if you give someone information that allows them to replace a part, but they pick a part that isn't quite right and something goes boom, guess who gets blamed...not them.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:18 PM   #9
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Default On the other hand

Electronics board can be rebuilt better than original manufacturer OMS parts too
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:45 PM   #10
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it is also for copyright protection, anyway a lot of those parts are so small (0.025 pitch or even smaller chip) and some of them are in encapsulated in epoxy so...
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:14 PM   #11
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Default Variable speed drills

how exactly does an electronic rpm controller perform when the trigger is fully depressed?
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:37 PM   #12
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Electronic circuit boards can be repaired the question is is it cost effective to invest $ 50.00 a hour in a circuit board that cost $2.50 to make?

It's like this. About 10 years ago I went on a tour of railroad locomotive repair facility. The question was ask when does a wrecked locomotive get rebuilt. The answer was 25 years before everything was rebuilt now it is a balancing act. They look at the age of the locomotive and design life and the cost of the repairs. Now locomotives are a lot more expensive than PC Boards.

Another example is having motors rewound . When I worked in Freeport TX in the 80's I sent a 18 month old 50 HP Reliance motor back to the in plant motor shop to have the bearings replaced . It never came back they said it was not worth repairing because it was a common motor. The latest thing that I have heardnow is that if it is smaller than 75 HP and is not a special motor it is scrapped .

Now one other thing you have to look is how long does it take to get a new what ever and what does it cost to be down that might justify investing money in repairs.

I am not telling you it is right or wrong that is just the way it is.

LC
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:38 PM   #13
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Patents, copyrights and liability: the same reasons that VFD manufacturers no longer sell repair parts to anyone other than "approved repair stations".
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:19 PM   #14
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Default Greenlee 555SB

I have a 555SB that went down because of electronics and Greenlee told me they don't service that bender any longer to. I took it to an industrial electronics repair shop and they repair it for $600 plus. The bender had been lightly used also.
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:45 PM   #15
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Default Hilti is no good for people that take care of their tools

This message came in from my industrial electronics repair person:
"It doesn't look repairable. Looks like they poured epoxy (the pink stuff) into the housing so that it can never be fixed.

We get that with a lot of Miller Welder products too. By sealing the unit, they prevent many moisture and vibration problems, but it also makes it impossible to repair, because everything is embedded in a chunk of hardened epoxy.

Sorry, but that's what it looks like to me from the photo. That's why you couldn't get it out."

Do that and not have a replacement is no good in my opinion
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:29 PM   #16
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not to burst your bubble, but planned obsolescence has been in the plan for years!
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:38 PM   #17
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Default Automobile manufacturers quit supplying parts too

There are aftermarket parts at auto part stores for late model automobiles. At least the tool manufacturers can do is release the information about obsolete tools.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:39 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Lone Crapshooter View Post
Electronic circuit boards can be repaired the question is is it cost effective to invest $ 50.00 a hour in a circuit board that cost $2.50 to make?

It's like this. About 10 years ago I went on a tour of railroad locomotive repair facility. The question was ask when does a wrecked locomotive get rebuilt. The answer was 25 years before everything was rebuilt now it is a balancing act. They look at the age of the locomotive and design life and the cost of the repairs. Now locomotives are a lot more expensive than PC Boards.

Another example is having motors rewound . When I worked in Freeport TX in the 80's I sent a 18 month old 50 HP Reliance motor back to the in plant motor shop to have the bearings replaced . It never came back they said it was not worth repairing because it was a common motor. The latest thing that I have heardnow is that if it is smaller than 75 HP and is not a special motor it is scrapped .

Now one other thing you have to look is how long does it take to get a new what ever and what does it cost to be down that might justify investing money in repairs.

I am not telling you it is right or wrong that is just the way it is.

LC

More and more manufactures are designed for robotic assembly.

Robots have extremely low wages -- and long work weeks.

In contrast, essentially all repair must be performed by highly skilled people.

&&&&

This is compounded when electronics are involved.

Surface mount electronics are only suitable// cost effective when handled robotically.

Many electronic gadgets use components so small that trick microscopes are required... devices that only the factory can afford to own and operate.

!
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:48 PM   #19
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What problems can anyone see happening if the electronic rpm controller is completely by-passed and wiring direct to 115v motor with brushes
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:18 AM   #20
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So how does the electronic speed controller know what speed to run motor?
Speed is usually controlled by trigger position.
If you need to replace a proprietary speed control, figure out what kind of motor it is and source the appropriate speed control.
Probably won't work with the trigger.
Probably a bad idea.

To answer your other question, usually if you hold the trigger down ALL the way an auxiliary contact will bypass the electronics and apply full voltage to the motor. It reduces the strain on the electronics.

If you eliminate the electronics the tool will only fun at full speed and be very difficult to use with any precision.
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