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Old 03-20-2017, 11:30 AM   #21
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I want to buy one of the sleeves and make a youtube video of driving a screw through it. I have told my story of the homeowner that drilled a deck screw right through 1" EMT where it went through a stud. That wouldn't have happened with a nail plate.
Hmmm, I was planning on metal studs with emt for my home. I assumed emt would be strong enough to protect against anything.

Does anyone know if they make nail plates for metal studs?

As a skeptic,
I too noticed that box nails being a common cause for arcs was kind of a bull**** idea.

Do any of you normally run cable before you install boxes? That's the only way it could happen really.

When I saw the header I thought maybe this was a post about my ex-wife.

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Old 03-20-2017, 11:47 AM   #22
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Hmmm, I was planning on metal studs with emt for my home. I assumed emt would be strong enough to protect against anything.
I do not think it would happen with a metal stud. It was a longshot in wood but evidently not long enough

The wood stud held the screw in place perfectly while he leaned on the drill. A metal stud I don't think it could happen.

If the pipe was just under drywall, again I don't think it could happen, the drywall would crumble rather than hold the screw in place.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:52 AM   #23
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They do make nailers for metal studs

https://www.erico.com/part.asp?part=304B2
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:05 PM   #24
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I do not think it would happen with a metal stud. It was a longshot in wood but evidently not long enough

The wood stud held the screw in place perfectly while he leaned on the drill. A metal stud I don't think it could happen.

If the pipe was just under drywall, again I don't think it could happen, the drywall would crumble rather than hold the screw in place.
Not only did the wood stud hold the screw in place, but the threading action of the screw in the stud pushed the tip of the screw into the metal pipe enough to pierce it and get it started.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:35 PM   #25
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I drill holes in studs willy-nilly. You guys would laugh if you saw my roller coater wire from stud to stud. This would take me forever to get boxes the right height.

Hammer vertical from the floor, box on stud to top of hammer, hold in place, pull hammer, bang on box. Drill all the holes around it close enough the same height.

I do like the nail guard sleeves though.
I was taught boxes at hammer height (yeah, everyone was provided a company hammer) and drill at your hips/waist, which is typically above a receptacle and below a switch.... Unless your freakishly tall or short.... Not that there is anything wrong with that, you just do it at your knees or head...
I'm holding my head in horror at the thought of using a random non-measuring tool (even a fairly standard company issue tool) to set box heights. Also, company hammer? Hell no. My right arm is the company hammer, the Estwing I hold in my hand would be the detachable face :-D
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:39 PM   #26
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I think this product is crap personally, but I really appreciate the ability of people to think of this stuff.

That is one of the reasons I like Rack-o-Teers (sp?), they have some really cool stuff that is based on real life situations. The electrical box basically has not changed in decades, so I appreciate that these guys are trying to do something different.

Cheers

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Old 03-20-2017, 05:49 PM   #27
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I'm holding my head in horror at the thought of using a random non-measuring tool (even a fairly standard company issue tool) to set box heights. Also, company hammer? Hell no. My right arm is the company hammer, the Estwing I hold in my hand would be the detachable face :-D
It is too bad you feel this way. The hammer idea sounds like a really great idea and something that really makes sense if time is a factor. I guess you could keep using your tape measure and sharpie and let the other guys run circles around you.
Nothing wrong with changing with the times.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:10 PM   #28
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See you guys are idiots, I'm gonna invest in this chit now, it'll become code just like afcis! muahahhahahahaha
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:18 PM   #29
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It is too bad you feel this way. The hammer idea sounds like a really great idea and something that really makes sense if time is a factor. I guess you could keep using your tape measure and sharpie and let the other guys run circles around you.
Nothing wrong with changing with the times.
I already told you to put a laser level on a milk crate. Line up the lower device holes. That way you can use any kind of box, even a 4X4 with a plaster ring, and be deadly accurate (and fast).

How is using a hammer keeping up with the times?
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:34 PM   #30
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They're nothing new. I saw an "EZ Box" at Hunts Point Terminal Market back in the early 70's.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:41 PM   #31
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See you guys are idiots, I'm gonna invest in this chit now, it'll become code just like afcis! muahahhahahahaha
Good luck with that!
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:51 PM   #32
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I already told you to put a laser level on a milk crate. Line up the lower device holes. That way you can use any kind of box, even a 4X4 with a plaster ring, and be deadly accurate (and fast).

How is using a hammer keeping up with the times?
I like the laser idea and the lower device hole is excellent. The hammer sounds too much like a stone age stick measurement.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:53 PM   #33
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I like the laser idea and the lower device hole is excellent. The hammer sounds too much like a stone age stick measurement.
The whole point of the hammer is that you already have it in your hand. No need to go get something, or carry it with you, or set it up.

I always found it to be an excellent idea.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:58 PM   #34
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Ive always used a hammer in new construction as well. Most hammers are 13" which is imo the perfect height for receptacles. If im matching up heights in an existing house then out comes a pencil and tape measure.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:59 PM   #35
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The whole point of the hammer is that you already have it in your hand. No need to go get something, or carry it with you, or set it up.

I always found it to be an excellent idea.
I get that just never really dealt with that much wood so didn't carry a hammer on me. One could use a stick for metal studs. To me a hammer is just too short for a box, 16" AFF to the bottom of a box is the lowest I've installed to the best of my memory.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:03 PM   #36
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Hmmm, I was planning on metal studs with emt for my home. I assumed emt would be strong enough to protect against anything.

Does anyone know if they make nail plates for metal studs?

As a skeptic,
I too noticed that box nails being a common cause for arcs was kind of a bull**** idea.

Do any of you normally run cable before you install boxes? That's the only way it could happen really.

When I saw the header I thought maybe this was a post about my ex-wife.

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It's the length of the screws that are used for thin steel studding that save you.

Excessively long screws don't help -- as the full 'purchase' of the grip is achieved right behind the sheet rock.

Grommetted Romex or MC cable would be as safe as EMT... and are the norm for such cavities.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:04 PM   #37
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Ive always used a hammer in new construction as well. Most hammers are 13" which is imo the perfect height for receptacles. If im matching up heights in an existing house then out comes a pencil and tape measure.
ADA minimum receptacle height is 15" so that 13" is a couple inches low. I've always used 16".
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:13 PM   #38
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ADA minimum receptacle height is 15" so that 13" is a couple inches low. I've always used 16".
does that apply to residential?

I guess I better go take all of those floor receptacles and baseboard receptacles out Ive installed and put them in the wall then

for commercial its always been 18" AFF to center
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:15 PM   #39
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I measured from floor up for every box once..... Once.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:16 PM   #40
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I get that just never really dealt with that much wood so didn't carry a hammer on me. One could use a stick for metal studs. To me a hammer is just too short for a box, 16" AFF to the bottom of a box is the lowest I've installed to the best of my memory.
Every EC should build to a standard -- so that his troops stay on message -- quality wise.

For me: all common switches: 46" AFF on center; all common receptacles 18" AFF on center; all bathroom GFCI recepts at 42" on center; etc.

A story pole with a Sharpie (various colors, too) is a wickedly fast way for a foreman to lay out boxes. He need not even bend over.

Every EC ought to have a standard horizontal boring height, too. for light steel studding that ought to be 24" AFF -- which is where the industry places the first factory penetration.

I have the classic mechanically advantaged tin puncher mounted with a stirrup strap to a stick of narrow strut rail -- set for 24" AFF. Since I'm working off of concrete rough floors, that's all that I need.

The advantage of punching the occasional hole -- to establish a perfect line -- is the optional (occasional) use of EMT -- and, of course, very rapid MC/ Romex pulls.
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