brian john

I have worked with many fine EXCELLENT electricians* that would work the panties off the the men slinging that word around.

One way to offend and continue the void between open shop and union is to use offensive names.

I like to call them (if licensed) electricians.

LawnGuyLandSparky

Correct - the tern "scab" is anyone who isn't management that crosses a picket line.

Working "rat" is working nonunion.


Often when you see contractors advise other contractors - they emphasize - never sell yourself short - do not try to underbid jobs to get them - make sure you're paid first, cover your overhead and profit...

Ironically, it's when their labor demands the same treatment that those rules are suddenly disregarded. When it comes to labor, selling THEM short is all fine and dandy. Competing by having the LEAST paid workers is not only an option, it's standard practice for many.

When I read about contractors giving 1.00 raises per YEAR I have to wonder how bad things are going to have to get before people start hoarding guns & canned food.

Resiguy

HELLO!?!...ok, let's say I'm calling you, "Mr. Politically Correct". THAT would be name calling.
SCAB IS JUST A TERM! IT IS NOT A MATTER OF NAME CALLING!!!

Let me ask you this...
Would you call someone with below avarage intelligence, smart, just so you wouldn't hurt their feelings?
Would you want a 1st year doctor with less training and experience than a doctor that has 10-20 years experience and training, preform surgery on you?
Would you want your children to learn mostly from the subsitute teachers or the Teachers that are certified and went to college?
The corporate world has a name for these type of people too, they call them "temps".
I guess I now see why you are sticking up for these people. ...

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"220...221, yea whatever it takes".

amptech

Resiguy, who are "these people" you are referring to? Union? Non-union? I don't care where you are from or what trade you work in, the term "Scab" is derogatory and yes, calling someone a scab is name calling. If you were comparing "below average intelligence", "untrained Doctor", and "substitute teacher" with non-union electrician then you are being very narrow minded. I cringe every time I hear a union sparky talk about how inferior open shop electricians are just as I do when I hear open shop sparkys mouth off about how lazy and overpaid the union guys are. Both are ignorant, broad generalizations. That's the kind of mindset that goes nowhere fast.

brian john

And Amptech summed it up perfectly.

Resiguy

Holy crap...are you actually reading my posts? Quit taking the issue out of context. The issue here was about the term "SCAB". And that's it. Not Union vs. Non Union at all.
#1 "These people", I was refering to are SCABS.
Scabs are ANYONE, UNION OR NON UNION. YES UNION GUYS CAN BE SCABS TOO!!! Fact: SCABS ARE "TYPICALLY" not as skilled as Trained Electricians. Wether you think it's demeaning or not, that's your problem. Go complain to the publishers of Websters dictionary if you don't like it. It's not used as a slang as well and it's not just a, "UNION GUY'S" term as you may so preceive it.
#2 It's you non-union guys that are starting the union/non union argument here. My comments I've made previously generally are that UNION workers DO NOT THINK that they are better than the non union. MOST OF THEM WERE NON UNION TO BEGIN WITH. And if you think that you have it so much better not being a part of a union then why are you complaing about what you think is namecalling by Union members? I think the last time I had problems with namecalling is when I was in grade school.
#3 Read my post again. The compairison was between SCABS and SKILLED LABOR.

Again,... SCAB = TYPICALLY UNSKILLED (and willing to accept a smaller paycheck and substandard working conditions) than the UNION and or EXPERIENCED and or TRAINED NON UNION ELECTRICIAN.

__________________
"220...221, yea whatever it takes".

480sparky

Fact #1; There are great union electricians.
Fact #2; There are terrible union electricians.
Fact #3; There are great non-union electricians.
Fact #4; There are terrible non-unions electricians.
Fact $5; The above four facts are presented in no particular order. No preference in my part is to be presumed. One of them had to be first listed, and it makes no difference to me which one it was.
Fact #6; Discussing the union/non-union issue any further will not resolve any differences, prove any points, demonstrate any perceived 'superiority' of any one of the first 4 facts above, and only lead to useless arguing and bickering.

I suggest one of two things at this point:

1. Drop the arguements now.
or
2. Moderators, close the thread.

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All responses based on the 2008 National Rat Code.

brian john

Resi:

What decides qualified and not qualified? A license?

While I am sure you are a very good electrician, I am sure there others that may say you know nothing IN THEIR FIELD...

MY point is and remains SCAB is a derogatory term that should be dropped in the discussion of workers.

Now if you have a boo boo it might scab over. But humans, not in my vocabulary.

Oh and resi I am a union member 30 plus years union contractor 23 years.

amptech

Resiguy, what compels you to presume I am non-union? Your reply to my post speaks volumes. This thread needs to be closed.

TOOL_5150

Wow, I started quite the arguement! IMO I only see 2 types of electricians: good ones that take their work seriously, do it safely and do it right the first time. And then there are the bad electricians that do hack work.

I could not care less WHO they work for.

~Matt

480sparky

Exactly. This is not a union v. non-union issue.

__________________
All responses based on the 2008 National Rat Code.

Celtic

Did you know that in many areas, teachers that educate children in private schools (ie, Elementary Catholic Schools) are NOT required to be certified - that is, Certified by passing a test such as those administered by ETS/Praxis? Granted, the teacher must have a degree in education, but they are not certified.

Does that make these teachers "scabs"?
They meet the requirements for teaching in those institutions as detailed by the State.

__________________

220/221

Heh heh...that's a stretch.


The term scab is NEVER good when referring to a person.

LawnGuyLandSparky

Scab is definately derogatory, and meant to be so. The actual correct term for an unqualified or lesser skilled person, and this applies equally to union and nonunion workers alike, is MUTT.

brian john

I always thought it was slacker.

Chris Kennedy

Tip.

Teach scabs the young people scabs how to use drill bits scabs and saw blades early scabs!





























(pick the scabs to view sentence)

__________________
Bulldozers and Dirt

LawnGuyLandSparky

No, I'd say a slacker is capable but unwilling. Also "column shadow."

Resiguy

[edit] Union scabbing
The concept of union scabbing refers to any circumstance in which union workers, who normally might be expected to honor picket lines established by fellow working folk during a strike, are inclined or compelled to cross those picket lines or, in some manner, otherwise engage in workplace activity which may prove injurious to the strike.
Unionized workers are sometimes required to cross the picket lines established by other unions due to their organizations having signed contracts which include no-strike clauses. The no-strike clause typically requires that members of the union not conduct any strike action for the duration of the contract. Members who honor the picket line in spite of the contract frequently face discipline, for their action may be viewed as a violation of provisions of the contract. Therefore, any union conducting a strike action typically seeks to include a provision of amnesty for all who honored the picket line in the agreement that settles the strike.
No strike clauses may also prevent unionized workers from engaging in solidarity actions for other workers even when no picket line is crossed. For example, striking workers in manufacturing or mining produce a product which must be transported. In a situation where the factory or mine owners have replaced the strikers, unionized transport workers may feel inclined to refuse to haul any product that is produced by strikebreakers, yet their own contract obligates them to do so.
Historically the practice of union scabbing has been a contentious issue in the union movement, and a point of contention between adherents of different union philosophies. For example, supporters of industrial unions, which have sought to organize entire workplaces without regard to individual skills, have criticized craft unions for organizing workplaces into separate unions according to skill, a circumstance that makes union scabbing more common. Union scabbing is not, however, unique to craft unions.

__________________
"220...221, yea whatever it takes".

brian john

Which has nothing to do with my original suggestion to poster that this term should be dropped from his vocabulary.

LawnGuyLandSparky

Agreed.
It does the labor movement more harm than good to drive a wedge between union and nonunion workers. A rising tide raises all ships.