Biggest waste of money in industrial /petro-chemical installations - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Trade Topics > Industrial Electrical Forum


Like Tree36Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-07-2017, 09:57 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,481
Rewards Points: 1,416
Default Biggest waste of money in industrial /petro-chemical installations

In your opinion what are the biggest wastes of money in industrial and petro - chemical installations. This things can be code / engineering requirements but we all have seen ways that this things get defeated.

1 divided cable tray
2 120 volt explosion proof receptacles
3 explosion proof ends on arching tools
4 explosion proof ends on extension cords
5 external bond wire on conduits

LC
__________________
What tools do I need to carry? Use the NEC as your guide keep all your tools ACCESSABLE but keep your everyday tools READILY ACCESSABLE.
Lone Crapshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-07-2017, 10:00 PM   #2
Petulant Amateur
 
99cents's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Perky Nipples, Canada
Posts: 13,964
Rewards Points: 8,112
Default

You must be new to this. Overly engineered = $$$. Enjoy the run.
MechanicalDVR and telsa like this.
99cents is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2017, 10:16 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 7,690
Rewards Points: 13,656
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Crapshooter View Post
In your opinion what are the biggest wastes of money in industrial and petro - chemical installations. This things can be code / engineering requirements but we all have seen ways that this things get defeated.

1 divided cable tray
2 120 volt explosion proof receptacles
3 explosion proof ends on arching tools
4 explosion proof ends on extension cords
5 external bond wire on conduits

LC
Under-engineered facilities -- blow up or burn down.

Yes, it's been done.
telsa is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to telsa For This Useful Post:
sparkiez (04-05-2017)
Old 01-07-2017, 10:46 PM   #4
corn-fused
 
papaotis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: on the river, near the corn
Posts: 4,556
Rewards Points: 322
Default

over engineering and blank checks
__________________
i like neat! just doesnt always happen
papaotis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2017, 10:56 PM   #5
Donuts > Fried Eggs
 
Big John's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland
Posts: 16,974
Rewards Points: 278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by telsa View Post
Under-engineered facilities -- blow up or burn down.
Yeah, I'm really having a hard time seeing the objection to careful design in hazardous environments: I'd much rather see that than companies taking shortcuts at the expense of worker safety.

Most of those requirements are written in blood; it's not like guys don't routinely die in hazardous industries.
__________________
Spend $75 to keep yourself safe. Always wear your gloves.

Last edited by Big John; 01-07-2017 at 11:02 PM.
Big John is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Big John For This Useful Post:
MechanicalDVR (01-09-2017), sparkiez (04-05-2017)
Old 01-07-2017, 11:16 PM   #6
Bilge Rat
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 4,967
Rewards Points: 590
Default

Using explosion-proof motors in non-classified locations.
glen1971 likes this.
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2017, 11:24 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
360max's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 9,672
Rewards Points: 762
Default

__________________
Moderator-In-Training
360max is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2017, 11:27 PM   #8
Senile Member
 
macmikeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 20,497
Rewards Points: 3,332
Default

I remember the gas storage tank burning near to Otoole's bar and pub where my girlfriend was working at the time. The Otoole's sign melted right off the side of the building and it was several blocks down the road.
__________________
“That all changes—starting right here and right now.” Jan. 20 “will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.” Donald Trump
macmikeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2017, 11:43 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
drewsserviceco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Philly suburbs
Posts: 689
Rewards Points: 2
Default

Remember Charlie? Ask him about ignoring safety designs in refineries.
seige likes this.
drewsserviceco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2017, 12:09 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
360max's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 9,672
Rewards Points: 762
Default

I'd rather see something over engineered than under when it comes to life safety
MechanicalDVR and drsparky like this.
__________________
Moderator-In-Training
360max is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2017, 11:05 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,481
Rewards Points: 1,416
Default

I am not objecting to the use of explosion proof devices in hazardous locations.
But how many times have we worked a shutdown and needed a electric tool gone to the tool room checked out a power tool with brushes that had a explosion proof cord end and used it a hazardous location.

LC
micromind likes this.
__________________
What tools do I need to carry? Use the NEC as your guide keep all your tools ACCESSABLE but keep your everyday tools READILY ACCESSABLE.
Lone Crapshooter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2017, 11:19 AM   #12
Petulant Amateur
 
99cents's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Perky Nipples, Canada
Posts: 13,964
Rewards Points: 8,112
Default

I'm confused.
99cents is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2017, 11:45 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Alberta Rockies
Posts: 2,010
Rewards Points: 2,374
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Crapshooter View Post
I am not objecting to the use of explosion proof devices in hazardous locations.
But how many times have we worked a shutdown and needed a electric tool gone to the tool room checked out a power tool with brushes that had a explosion proof cord end and used it a hazardous location.

LC
I've yet to use an explosion-proof drill.. I'm sure my cordless Dewalt isn't.. But the Gas Monitoring that I use enables it to be used in that area..

To your original list - 120 volt x-proof receptacles and x-proof extension cords all have their place if used properly.. A 3' "cheater cord" hooked to a 100' regular extension cord is wrong on so many levels..

Wasteful things I've seen:
- Doing things twice because of either bad engineering, or poor workmanship.
- Poor workmanship and/or inadequate knowledge of the code will lead to rework at some point. Usually at the cost of having to purchase replacement parts, at the owner's expense..
- Wrong materials being used. Seals where they don't need to be is a big one...
- One that won't go away is some places permitting systems.. How does a 7 page permit make things safer for the same job over a 1 page permit? Both have a hazard id/task hazard/jha done on them..
- Engineering that drags their feet on simple decisions..
- Poor organization by a supervisor...
micromind likes this.
glen1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to glen1971 For This Useful Post:
micromind (01-08-2017)
Old 01-08-2017, 02:51 PM   #14
Wiresmith
 
hd13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: midwest united states
Posts: 131
Rewards Points: 248
Default

under engineering
under designing
not designing for future
not enough substations
not using autotransformers
lack of planning and knowledge
glen1971 likes this.
hd13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 01:09 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 430
Rewards Points: 618
Default

Kinda like dividers in cable, but how about different wire duct for different voltages in control panels?
bill39 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 01:16 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
JRaef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 4,264
Rewards Points: 2,418
Default

We have a refinery around here that has been consistently under funded for the last 30 years, so they are always cutting corners. Every 5 years or so something goes wrong, someone gets killed, and it always comes down to lack of attention to seemingly small details.
__________________
"If you don't know where you're going, then any direction will do." -- Lewis Carroll
JRaef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 06:08 PM   #17
Deplorable-Electrician
 
MechanicalDVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: God's Country of Virginia
Posts: 27,643
Rewards Points: 24,634
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRaef View Post
We have a refinery around here that has been consistently under funded for the last 30 years, so they are always cutting corners. Every 5 years or so something goes wrong, someone gets killed, and it always comes down to lack of attention to seemingly small details.
Seems crazy to think of a refinery being 'under funded'.
micromind likes this.
__________________
I have never claimed to be a nice guy!

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" mlk
MechanicalDVR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 09:13 PM   #18
Bilge Rat
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 4,967
Rewards Points: 590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicalDVR View Post
Seems crazy to think of a refinery being 'under funded'.
That's only the worker and infrastructure part. The executive compensation part is more than adequately funded.
RePhase277 likes this.
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2017, 09:20 PM   #19
Deplorable-Electrician
 
MechanicalDVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: God's Country of Virginia
Posts: 27,643
Rewards Points: 24,634
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
That's only the worker and infrastructure part. The executive compensation part is more than adequately funded.
That sounds about right.
micromind likes this.
__________________
I have never claimed to be a nice guy!

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" mlk
MechanicalDVR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 05:23 PM   #20
Wiresmith
 
hd13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: midwest united states
Posts: 131
Rewards Points: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicalDVR View Post
Seems crazy to think of a refinery being 'under funded'.
just saw a local chem plant do a 180 on maintenance when the maintenance manager position changed hands, they all get pressure from corporate but some are pushovers and will be the scapegoat when something bad happens.
hd13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com