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Old 01-07-2017, 10:57 PM   #1
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Default Biggest waste of money in industrial /petro-chemical installations

In your opinion what are the biggest wastes of money in industrial and petro - chemical installations. This things can be code / engineering requirements but we all have seen ways that this things get defeated.

1 divided cable tray
2 120 volt explosion proof receptacles
3 explosion proof ends on arching tools
4 explosion proof ends on extension cords
5 external bond wire on conduits

LC
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:00 PM   #2
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You must be new to this. Overly engineered = $$$. Enjoy the run.
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Crapshooter View Post
In your opinion what are the biggest wastes of money in industrial and petro - chemical installations. This things can be code / engineering requirements but we all have seen ways that this things get defeated.

1 divided cable tray
2 120 volt explosion proof receptacles
3 explosion proof ends on arching tools
4 explosion proof ends on extension cords
5 external bond wire on conduits

LC
Under-engineered facilities -- blow up or burn down.

Yes, it's been done.
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:46 PM   #4
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over engineering and blank checks
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:56 PM   #5
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Under-engineered facilities -- blow up or burn down.
Yeah, I'm really having a hard time seeing the objection to careful design in hazardous environments: I'd much rather see that than companies taking shortcuts at the expense of worker safety.

Most of those requirements are written in blood; it's not like guys don't routinely die in hazardous industries.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:16 AM   #6
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Using explosion-proof motors in non-classified locations.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:24 AM   #7
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:27 AM   #8
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I remember the gas storage tank burning near to Otoole's bar and pub where my girlfriend was working at the time. The Otoole's sign melted right off the side of the building and it was several blocks down the road.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:43 AM   #9
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Remember Charlie? Ask him about ignoring safety designs in refineries.
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Old 01-08-2017, 01:09 AM   #10
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I'd rather see something over engineered than under when it comes to life safety
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:05 PM   #11
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I am not objecting to the use of explosion proof devices in hazardous locations.
But how many times have we worked a shutdown and needed a electric tool gone to the tool room checked out a power tool with brushes that had a explosion proof cord end and used it a hazardous location.

LC
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:19 PM   #12
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I'm confused.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Lone Crapshooter View Post
I am not objecting to the use of explosion proof devices in hazardous locations.
But how many times have we worked a shutdown and needed a electric tool gone to the tool room checked out a power tool with brushes that had a explosion proof cord end and used it a hazardous location.

LC
I've yet to use an explosion-proof drill.. I'm sure my cordless Dewalt isn't.. But the Gas Monitoring that I use enables it to be used in that area..

To your original list - 120 volt x-proof receptacles and x-proof extension cords all have their place if used properly.. A 3' "cheater cord" hooked to a 100' regular extension cord is wrong on so many levels..

Wasteful things I've seen:
- Doing things twice because of either bad engineering, or poor workmanship.
- Poor workmanship and/or inadequate knowledge of the code will lead to rework at some point. Usually at the cost of having to purchase replacement parts, at the owner's expense..
- Wrong materials being used. Seals where they don't need to be is a big one...
- One that won't go away is some places permitting systems.. How does a 7 page permit make things safer for the same job over a 1 page permit? Both have a hazard id/task hazard/jha done on them..
- Engineering that drags their feet on simple decisions..
- Poor organization by a supervisor...
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:51 PM   #14
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under engineering
under designing
not designing for future
not enough substations
not using autotransformers
lack of planning and knowledge
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:09 PM   #15
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Kinda like dividers in cable, but how about different wire duct for different voltages in control panels?
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:16 PM   #16
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We have a refinery around here that has been consistently under funded for the last 30 years, so they are always cutting corners. Every 5 years or so something goes wrong, someone gets killed, and it always comes down to lack of attention to seemingly small details.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:08 PM   #17
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We have a refinery around here that has been consistently under funded for the last 30 years, so they are always cutting corners. Every 5 years or so something goes wrong, someone gets killed, and it always comes down to lack of attention to seemingly small details.
Seems crazy to think of a refinery being 'under funded'.
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:13 PM   #18
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Seems crazy to think of a refinery being 'under funded'.
That's only the worker and infrastructure part. The executive compensation part is more than adequately funded.
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:20 PM   #19
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That's only the worker and infrastructure part. The executive compensation part is more than adequately funded.
That sounds about right.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:23 PM   #20
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Seems crazy to think of a refinery being 'under funded'.
just saw a local chem plant do a 180 on maintenance when the maintenance manager position changed hands, they all get pressure from corporate but some are pushovers and will be the scapegoat when something bad happens.
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