am i a dic k...? - Page 2 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

Thomps · 05-04-2012, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captkirk

I am going after another EC's apprentice. This kid is way undervalued with him and i want to make him an offer.....Is this bad ethics..?

Yes, I would say that it would be a bad call. Electrical contracting is a pretty small world (at least in my area it is). We've relied on our relationships with other EC over the years to keep guys busy or to boost our labour pool when needed.

I've told guys looking to move employers that they need to quit their current job before I can talk to them about potential employment, and even then, 4 out of 5 times I will contact their employer to discuss what is happening.

I've missed out on a few good guys over the years, and I've been burned and picked up guys that were disappointing in the end too.

either way you decide to handle it, good luck.

brian john · 05-04-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBC Jesse

There is nothing wrong with talking to the kid and telling him if he gets laid off to come see you..

QFT.. I won't "steal" another man's help.. but I will tell him "If you ever find yourself with out a job, or about to be, here's my card.. call me"[/quote]

They abolished slavery in the 19th century. HE DOES NOT OWN THIS WORKER any more than you own your employees. The worker is in the market to get the best deal he can for his 40 hours plus. If I can't keep my employees happy and at the top of the pay scale with top benefits and someone makes them a better offer I'd think they were foolish for not jumping at the chance.

brian john · 05-04-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomps

Yes, I would say that it would be a bad call. Electrical contracting is a pretty small world (at least in my area it is). We've relied on our relationships with other EC over the years to keep guys busy or to boost our labour pool when needed.

If they were in my circle of customers I'd call them and tell them exactly what I am going to do.

Quote:

I've told guys looking to move employers that they need to quit their current job before I can talk to them about potential employment, and even then, 4 out of 5 times I will contact their employer to discuss what is happening.

I'd never quit one job till I had another. THEY WERE FOOLISH, if they did this.

Theriot · 05-04-2012, 11:10 AM

No it isn't wrong to offer him a job and yes you are a d---k. Lol

wesleydnunder · 05-04-2012, 11:15 AM

I see no problem with offering a man a job, regardless who employs him. It's no different than the apprentice looking through the want ads in the newspaper and getting a better offer.

Mark

electrictim510 · 05-04-2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captkirk

I am going after another EC's apprentice. This kid is way undervalued with him and i want to make him an offer.....Is this bad ethics..?

Not at all. I have done it for years. Journeymans and apprentices alike. If someone wants a good guy they need to pay for a good guy. If anything else you will get that guy to ask his boss for a raise. Of course depending on how that chooses to leave the other company places value on his character and how much trust will be put into him. This kind of hiring has worked pretty well in the past. Especially since I am not the owner I can talk to the guy on his level and feel him out before making the decison. Hiring someone who is unemployed is unfavorable to me actually because they're more inclined to lie and bs their way through an interview.

Funny that this topic was brought up. I might get a bunch of slack for this but everytime I see an electrician I think "How would this guy work for us?" And if I think it will work I try and recruit. We pay well and treat our guys well there is no reason why we can't hire the best and compete for them. Its my favorite way of hiring!

brian john · 05-04-2012, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrictim510

Not at all. I have done it for years. Journeymans and apprentices alike. If someone wants a good guy they need to pay for a good guy. If anything else you will get that guy to ask his boss for a raise. Of course depending on how that chooses to leave the other company places value on his character and how much trust will be put into him. This kind of hiring has worked pretty well in the past. Especially since I am not the owner I can talk to the guy on his level and feel him out before making the decison. Hiring someone who is unemployed is unfavorable to me actually because they're more inclined to lie and bs their way through an interview.

Funny that this topic was brought up. I might get a bunch of slack for this but everytime I see an electrician I think "How would this guy work for us?" And if I think it will work I try and recruit. We pay well and treat our guys well there is no reason why we can't hire the best and compete for them. Its my favorite way of hiring!

When went in business I had a list of 5 people to be my first hire all of them remained with their employer but all got a raise because of my offer. I ended up hiring a young man fresh out of his time, 27 years later he is one of our lead guys and the smartest of the lot.

Thomps · 05-04-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

If they were in my circle of customers I'd call them and tell them exactly what I am going to do.

I'm not sure what you mean.

I'd never quit one job till I had another. THEY WERE FOOLISH, if they did this.

I don't agree with you, but I know what you're saying. Keep in mind that I wouldn't get to this point in the conversation usless I was sure the apprentice was worth hiring in the first place.

I'm not going to to steal a man out from another contractor that I may be working with further down the road. I won't jeopardize a working relationship for an apprentice.

I've been dealing with two similar situations in the past two weeks. But from the other side of things.

Magnettica · 05-04-2012, 05:52 PM

Do what you have to do but IMO I would think that what comes around goes around, so don't be surprised if one your guys unexpectedly picks up and walks in the future.

jrannis · 05-04-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

a young man fresh out of his time

Brian, is this some kind of a Virginia thing?
What does it mean?

electrictim510 · 05-04-2012, 06:28 PM

I believe that electricians should work for whoever treats them better, whatever that way may be. If someone offers them a better deal then I won't blame them for following what is best for them. I don't believe in holding people back from bettering themselves. I have yet seen a guy leave for a better offer though. If a guy is worth something he should get it if at all possible. We have had guys think they can get better but then crawl back real fast (usually unrealistic apprentices who want to be journeymen overnight).

brian john · 05-04-2012, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnettica

Do what you have to do but IMO I would think that what comes around goes around, so don't be surprised if one your guys unexpectedly picks up and walks in the future.

Not if you treat them right keep the money flowing

brian john · 05-04-2012, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrannis

Brian, is this some kind of a Virginia thing?
What does it mean?

An Apprentice after he finished his four years (now five), is fresh out of his time.

His time being the apprenticeship, I just assumed this was universal?

WHAT A DUMMY I AM.

brian john · 05-04-2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrannis

Brian, is this some kind of a Virginia thing?
What does it mean?

Where you at in South Florida? I have a consulting job MAYBE coming up in Miami.

CADPoint · 05-04-2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

Where you at in South Florida? I have a consulting job MAYBE coming up in Miami.

See Kennedy

brian john · 05-04-2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CADPoint

See Kennedy

Space Center? Been there done that.

CADPoint · 05-04-2012, 08:54 PM

Kennedy is south miami, (i believe) not that I've ever been. Sorry I spent early childhood at the base in the keys.

Not that I live at the coast but I like the lighthouse!

I had deja vu driving around Disney land... (basicially seeing the scrub brush) did it.

DIRT27 · 05-04-2012, 11:42 PM

I think what it boils down to is it is a free market and there is competition for customers and employee's.

My wife used to work for an employment agency and if a company need a permanent position filled for skilled position she would do what ever it would take to fill that position with the most qualified canidate. Even when it meant finding a few that were good in that field and see if she could offer them a better deal.

There was a time when I felt like I wouldn't ever go to work for another contractor. Unfortantly things have changed and I don't feel like that any more. If I had something I was confiedent was a better deal I would take it.

The most important thing is when you take care of your employees they won't want to go anywhere else because they have a good gig and they are confiedent in there in employer. If you have a good guy you don't take care of they will leave and you will regret it, because good help is hard to find.

Celtic · 05-05-2012, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captkirk

They lay him off when ever it gets slow.

Tell the kid to call you when the next layoff comes around.

If he is as good as you think he is ~ pay to keep him.
If he does not meet your expectations, he can always go back to the other guy when he calls again.

You get what you want.
The kid gets what he wants.
The other EC gets what he wants.

Everyone wins.

...and if you would get me some pie, I'd have what I want.

DIRT27 · 05-05-2012, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celtic

Tell the kid to call you when the next layoff comes around.

If he is as good as you think he is ~ pay to keep him.
If he does not meet your expectations, he can always go back to the other guy when he calls again.

You get what you want.
The kid gets what he wants.
The other EC gets what he wants.

Everyone wins.

...and if you would get me some pie, I'd have what I want.

What if the lay off never comes. I have gone years with only a couple of unrequested days off. He could be losing out on a great guy that could possible be a key player in his business in years to come.