Lightning protection systems - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

pitapacket · 08-06-2011, 01:06 PM

Does anyone have any experience with Lightning protections systems. I'm looking beyond the point of service surge protections. I'm talking about rods and the big braided wire. I've been researching LPI and UL certification, but it all seems pretty cryptic. I realize it's a hard industry to break into, but I'm looking at it as a good fall/winter project when things slow down a bit. I am a full time contractor but I'm always looking to grow.

crazy electrician · 08-06-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitapacket

Does anyone have any experience with Lightning protections systems. I'm looking beyond the point of service surge protections. I'm talking about rods and the big braided wire. I've been researching LPI and UL certification, but it all seems pretty cryptic. I realize it's a hard industry to break into, but I'm looking at it as a good fall/winter project when things slow down a bit. I am a full time contractor but I'm always looking to grow.

I have never been a firm believer in putting anything on a house that attracts lightning. I did learn a little bit about installing these systems in college, you have to be real careful with your radius of your bends on your EGC.

jwjrw · 08-06-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitapacket

Does anyone have any experience with Lightning protections systems. I'm looking beyond the point of service surge protections. I'm talking about rods and the big braided wire. I've been researching LPI and UL certification, but it all seems pretty cryptic. I realize it's a hard industry to break into, but I'm looking at it as a good fall/winter project when things slow down a bit. I am a full time contractor but I'm always looking to grow.

It's a specialized industry. The guys that do it travel all over the country doing it. There is a certification you can get.

**480sparky** · 08-06-2011, 02:20 PM

Ask journeymanjo.... he's an expert. He knows all about lighting and little green screws.

pitapacket · 08-06-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy electrician

I have never been a firm believer in putting anything on a house that attracts lightning. I did learn a little bit about installing these systems in college, you have to be real careful with your radius of your bends on your EGC.

"A lightning protection system does not attract, repel, or prevent a lightning strike." This is a quote from East Coast Lightning Equipment. Obviously the system has to be properly installed to do it's job. The NFPA has the complete requirements for the radius bends and what not. It certainly is a very technical process.

pitapacket · 08-06-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwjrw

It's a specialized industry. The guys that do it travel all over the country doing it. There is a certification you can get.

It's the specialization that's turning me on. The certification looks pretty brutal (5 exams in all). I'm taking a long hard look at it. By the way, I enjoyed your reply concerning billing from the walk in tub thread. Give em' hell!

pitapacket · 08-06-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

Ask journeymanjo.... he's an expert. He knows all about lighting and little green screws.

Thanks Sparky.... I'll look into it

jwjrw · 08-06-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitapacket

It's the specialization that's turning me on. The certification looks pretty brutal (5 exams in all). I'm taking a long hard look at it. By the way, I enjoyed your reply concerning billing from the walk in tub thread. Give em' hell!

I looked into doing it. To make any money you have to do a lot of jobs. They buy the supplies in bulk and are way cheaper on labor then we can go.

I say so many things on here I'm not sure which statement you are talking about...

I'm in Charlotte also by the way.

pitapacket · 08-06-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwjrw

I looked into doing it. To make any money you have to do a lot of jobs. They buy the supplies in bulk and are way cheaper on labor then we can go.

I say so many things on here I'm not sure which statement you are talking about...

I'm in Charlotte also by the way.

Sure you're in Charlotte. I'd recognize that dog face anywhere. As far as the money goes, I'm not looking to make it a full time job. Maybe cherry pick a little bit? I'm just trying to keep moving in a forward direction. Plus it never hurts to throw some credentials around. I haven't been able to get any material pricing since you need to be certified before the suppliers will even talk to you. We'll see, maybe I'm shot

jwjrw · 08-06-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitapacket

Sure you're in Charlotte. I'd recognize that dog face anywhere. As far as the money goes, I'm not looking to make it a full time job. Maybe cherry pick a little bit? I'm just trying to keep moving in a forward direction. Plus it never hurts to throw some credentials around. I haven't been able to get any material pricing since you need to be certified before the suppliers will even talk to you. We'll see, maybe I'm shot

You can buy the material without a certification. I found several dealers who even offered to help design the system. I priced a swim club and was about 3g's higher than the guys who do it full time. I think we use the same supply house. Your van looks familiar.

Jlarson · 08-06-2011, 06:20 PM

Just sub it to an existing LP contractor.

Personally I find lightning protection work boring.

jwjrw · 08-06-2011, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlarson

Just sub it to an existing LP contractor.

Personally I find lightning protection work boring.

He could only do that if they were a licensed ec in NC with an equal or higher license. Most I found were not licensed ec's, but LP is not considered doing electrical work here(as far as I know).... Like roofers do electrical in Az....

Jlarson · 08-06-2011, 06:31 PM

Oh yeah I forgot about all the licensing BS other states got going on.

pitapacket · 08-06-2011, 08:49 PM

I'm starting to wonder if certification is necessary... I'm a licensed EC. I sent an inquiry into the NCBEEC, but no one has returned my email. I'm going to start shopping for suppliers. JW I do most of my supply shopping at CES Matthews. I've got Mike inquiring about materials, but he was pretty unsure about the whole thing. I picked up a copy of the NFPA-780. $50 for a magazines worth of lighting protection "code" or protocol. Pretty straightforward stuff. For sure I'm not looking to sub it out. It seems like there have been a lot of calls this year for lighting strikes. Burned up transformers, doorbells, smokies, timers, etc. are getting burned up. These people are pretty interested in LPS's.

jwjrw · 08-06-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitapacket

I'm starting to wonder if certification is necessary... I'm a licensed EC. I sent an inquiry into the NCBEEC, but no one has returned my email. I'm going to start shopping for suppliers. JW I do most of my supply shopping at CES Matthews. I've got Mike inquiring about materials, but he was pretty unsure about the whole thing. I picked up a copy of the NFPA-780. $50 for a magazines worth of lighting protection "code" or protocol. Pretty straightforward stuff. For sure I'm not looking to sub it out. It seems like there have been a lot of calls this year for lighting strikes. Burned up transformers, doorbells, smokies, timers, etc. are getting burned up. These people are pretty interested in LPS's.

All I did was google and found some suppliers. No you do not have to be certified. And Mike is a good guy. We buy very little from them now though. There are places selling the same brands a lot cheaper. Check your business insurance and make sure you are covered if you are designing the system.

brian john · 08-06-2011, 10:20 PM

The jobs I have seen completed, are directed by one guy with inexpensive laborers doing the vast majority of work.

Jlarson · 08-06-2011, 11:37 PM

If you want to do it yourself I'd suggest getting the NFPA specs and do some research, especially look at stuff from the broadcast engineering types.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwjrw

Check your business insurance and make sure you are covered if you are designing the system.

We do our own small systems wgen neccisary and that's all we had to worry about.

pitapacket · 08-07-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jlarson

If you want to do it yourself I'd suggest getting the NFPA specs and do some research, especially look at stuff from the broadcast engineering types.

We do our own small systems wgen neccisary and that's all we had to worry about.

I did pick up the NFPA-780 which is all of the guidelines. I'm going to start shopping suppliers and putting the pricing together. It does seem odd that more people aren't doing this. I'm sure there are good reasons.

JM2 · 08-07-2011, 02:29 PM

Here in the "lightning capital of America" we all just add the lightning surge suppressors to our panels, meters, etc. The power Co's do it for a fee too - and then add it to the bill each month since they check the unit to see if it's been compromised. They range from $50 to $250 and do a pretty fair job - and most include guarantees for equipment loss. Some stab directly onto the panel, others wire to some large breaker that exists or is added. No rods to run - no extra grounding to add - it just shunts the excess voltage when the internal MOV's clamp on an a sensed overvoltage. This does not give that totally unpredictable lightning a path but protects the downstream loads from the overvoltage. All the EC's here do it for a nominal fee and advertise accordingly.

Commercial grade? Don't know...but suspect that larger units are available as well.

Direct strikes to roof-top gear? Well, maybe they let the smoke out of those and replace accordingly. Hopefully your EG shunts the pathway enough to save the gear and controls.