JayH

SEIU must be crying in their beer over this one.

It certainly is going to make it tough on a non-union shop knowing the mentality of the local.

No wonder rents are so high in the city.

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e57

Not sure what the SEIU have to whine about - except they have so little presence here...

You seem to elude to knowing more than you let on about my local street gang... FWIW I occasionally taunt Local 6 rep's about joining (As if I would...) from time to time - on my own - no company logo showing.... And the common response is I "could get in over in Dublin and work your way back over the years..." Reply: "You mean I need to go work in the East Bay, and someday I might be able to work where I live?!?" And the response soon after that is "Wait - You work here in the City? [Salivate] Who do you work for????" And then it all comes flashing back in their minds - it's really funny to watch... Inside their heads the say - '~ oh it's you... Never-mind...'

As for rents - they have lowered as much as the mortgages on the little island I'm on will allow. (Some would like it to be an island... If you ditch the Bridge and Tunnel aspect - SF is great... The bridge closures recently was like night and day here... Easy to get around - relaxed, no waiting.)

JayH

I don't want to burn myself on a public forum, but I've worked out of that local. I'd rather not say any more than that because I might have to work there again someday.

The thought that you could sign up in 595 and transfer your ticket to 6, well you and I both know that is hogwash.

And I agree you should be able to live where you work. I believe you should be able to work union or non-union as you see fit without interference from either side.

Unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon, but it won't prevent me from being civil and enjoying a beer with other civil individuals that can carry on an intelligent conversation.

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e57

I assume you know of some of what I speak then??? So very protective over what they call "Union Country" - essentially any commercial work in SF.

I assume you may have been here during the boom years? (Late Dot-Com, through to last year?) They brought in Dublin and San Mateo due to the 'shortage' of labor... They did not want to have the 80's re-occur on them - when they allowed a lot of guys in - only to sit around and loose market share... When I got here in '94 they were still bitter about it - kept themselves in denial during the dot-com days, and continued to deny a need to expand membership until right before the collapse of the economy. In the meantime, they missed the boat in a variety of ways. Then they sent all the outside locals back home - as if they played their cards right...

Yes - big lie... I'm sure you could trade the other way - or 617><551><595? But not into the precious 6...

I rarely cross a bridge, and rarely see 101 or 280 even while I live in the city, I don't get on a freeway - I have an 8 year old van with under 40K on it!

If you find yourself around - anywhere but Beale st Cafe.... (which is due to close soon anyway...) Not fond of the clientel...

Boneshaker

e57, you sure do like to type. Lets go at this one point at a time if you don't mind. Maybe we are not capable of having this discussion between the two of us because we come from two regions where things are done completely differant. I would like to hear from an open shop electrician from Maine in this thread, I would think he would tell a far different story than the one you appear to live each and every day.

With regards to your comment about specifically the IBEW, in most cases that's who I am referring to. Electricians wages are sure not negotiated by the Teamsters or the hotel worker unions. So yes, wages in the electical industry are directly connected to the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.

In a bubble. I don't know how anyone can be against licensing. Again I know nothing about the system in California but I can tell you in Most New England states where I hold 2 masters licenses it is as simple as getting your classroom, on the job training and passing a 100 question 3 hour test. It does not matter if you are union or non-union it is the same thing. This allows for regulation of the industry.

I think you know I was not saying the IBEW was in with the insurance or banking industry. What I was saying is the IBEW were the first large scale group in the electrical industry with employer paid health care.

In my area the IBEW is on the cutting edge of safety, teaching not only to our members but also to non-union companies that wish to send their employess. For instance we are in the process of high elevation emergency rescue training as wind towers are a big thing is this area now. This training is put on by my local and is attended by many non-union personel. Honestly I don't care if someone is union or non-union it crushes me each time I read about an accident or a death in our trade.

All this being said I can understand the position of some people against labor unions if all they have had are negative experiences. I encourage you to look outside of your area and see that not all unions are the same.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

RyanB

I have a question for everyone that is posting videos from the National Right To Work Committee or supports them:

Don't you think it's ironic that the National Right To Work Committee is a union of businessmen organized against other businessmen (men selling their labour) forming unions?

e57

Not sure this is an east vs west think - I grew up on the east coast... And the "Know or Blow" statement was purveyed quite a bit about the Local serving the Boston area as well - I heard that one as kid...
The IBEW does not set - or even influence my wages or rates... The IBEW in this area is a separate market in & of itself. That is to say, the larger commercial new construction market - of which there is little of. And even then they only compete on the might of the unions of other trades by way of pressure on the client. Who would for all extensive purposes not want to pay the extortion rate, but pay market rate instead. Which is why I often find myself as the only non-union contractor on some jobs, as most clients can't stand to pay double even if by contract or law they are required to.
I actually don't like to type that much - please see post 273...

I got my C-10 in '01, allowing me to contract, after 11 years in the trade. I got my certification to allow me to work for someone else in '03, as I was still advocating against the law.... It wasn't in effect untill '05 due to litigation... The law requiring certification here - passed in '99 was written in such a way that it would disenfranchise all non-union workers, and force all contractors to eventually be union in order to have employees. As it stands still, you need to choose sides in the union merit war early, and depending on where you live.

That said - if certification were based on realities of the market, and free enterprise - sure - love the idea... And not a political group with mafia like practices... But that is not what happened here.
Actually I had no idea what you were shooting for??? One word out of context can mean many things... But - Prove it!
That sounds nice - but I doubt you would ever see something like that here.

Anyway - look - I know all the Locals differ in policy and practice - but you all wear the same logo, and for the most part it is the most negative image that sticks. Not just to me, but the many others the IBEW has shunned nation wide. If the IBEW were less exclusive and uniformly so - it would not have the horrible image it maintains - not just here - but all over N. America.

Maybe the only thing to keep the IBEW in check is another union.... Competition is the best way to make it better....
I don't have anything against unions per se.... I do not need to 'look outside my area'... I should not have to go somewhere else to join the union... AND here - If I want to be a Plumber or Carpenter - I go down to their hall, and I'm welcomed with open arms... (the Pipe-fitters union doesn't seem bad - but I don't want to be a 40 year old apprentice or a plumber...) The same can not be said for the IBEW, and while that may not be true everywhere - there are others that can attest to the same treatment elsewhere - it is not just here...

steelersman

This is exactly why I'm all for the health care reform. I would love to see all of these private insurance companies have to "compete" with the public option. It would be great.

robnj772

So what is with your avatar anyway? Is that your son? If so why is it your avatar ? And if it isn't your son WELL like WTF is with your avatar?

When I read your posts I feel like they are written by Dougie Houser!

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"I don't worry about terrorism. I was married for two years. "
Sam Kinison

JayH

You really need to read up on the proposed health care legislation.

I think you might be surprised at this so called competition.

IF...you take the time to read.

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JayH

It is my son. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3456967/

Dougie Houser? I don't get it, but okay.

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e57

While I think this is the smartest thing you've said in this thread so far - I might go one step further by removing insurance companies from health care all together....

A good story on the topic of health care is here...

Anyway - it serves no one to put heath accessible to only those you pay wall st bankers - or cower to force competetion with the government for the cost of it - it should be as free as our public schools - which would serve both those poor who need care and the rich scum-bags who need not step over the bodies... Compared to other countries we are closer to South Africa than we are to Canada.

steelersman

Gee thanks. You biased? No way!

traveler

You have alot of unresolved issues.

Maybe THAT is why Local 6 told you to "have a nice day".

~Joe

Bob Badger

Great response Joe, ..... a typical union response. When you can't, or just don't know how to dispute an issue just change tactics and go for personal attacks against the person.

robnj772

Sounds about right,par for the course around here these days...

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"I don't worry about terrorism. I was married for two years. "
Sam Kinison

traveler

Okay, so now that we know how the shop owners feel, any actual working hands care to chime in??

~Joe

wildleg

chime in on what ? the OP ? or this drivel you've been arguing about for 10 pages ? You guys (collectively) argue about crap that will never, ever, in a million years be settled. Snap back to reality folks, nobody is going to win any of these arguments. When sweat shops abound, the unions will make things better. When the unions get so bloated and out of touch and their hands get into pockets where they shouldn't be, the non union contractors will get their foot back in the door. If the unions hadn't (historically) gotten themselves tied up with criminals, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because there are very few workers who wouldn't like to have union wages and union benefits. But what is the point of arguing over this crap ? - Do you really think you are so eloquent and persuasive that you are going to change someone's mind ?

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Chuck Norris sleeps with a night light. Not because Chuck Norris is afraid of the dark, but the dark is afraid of Chuck Norris.

Boneshaker

Wildleg, I don't think anyone on here feels he is the be all end, all or that we are going to change each others minds. It is just a conversation, an exchanging of opinions and perspectives. I for one enjoy reading everyones opinion of a particular subject, I have gained quite a bit of insight about what some people go through everyday. This is insight I didn't have 2 weeks ago. Besides I still owe Thomps a thankyou.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

oldman

All evil needs to thrive, is for good men to stand by and do nothing.