2000 and late - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

oldschool · 09-05-2009, 05:32 PM

Went to city hall to get two electrical permits on friday

I asked what is the latest code cylce they have adopted, i was informed 2002. Fine, no big deal. My question is, why do you think a juristriction would not want to make sure their residents have the latest saftey code installed?

480sparky · 09-05-2009, 05:41 PM

Either no one is pushing the issue internally, or there's a large lobbying effort blocking adoption of something newer.

MDShunk · 09-05-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschool

Went to city hall to get two electrical permits on friday

I asked what is the latest code cylce they have adopted, i was informed 2002. Fine, no big deal. My question is, why do you think a juristriction would not want to make sure their residents have the latest saftey code installed?

Couple reasons...
-To let the enforcement policies get sorted out and interpreted by other people; makes it easier on the inspector.
-To let the electricians get up to speed on it for a few years before it takes effect.
-To gain favor in the eyes of the community, who often look down on the latest codes with ire. Staying a cycle or two behind is more tolerable to the community at large. The "old code" is generally favored over the "new code", no matter what it is you're talking about or what year cycle you're in.

oldschool · 09-05-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDShunk

Couple reasons...
-To let the enforcement policies get sorted out and interpreted by other people; makes it easier on the inspector.
-To let the electricians get up to speed on it for a few years before it takes effect.
-To gain favor in the eyes of the community, who often look down on the latest codes with ire. Staying a cycle or two behind is more tolerable to the community at large. The "old code" is generally favored over the "new code", no matter what it is you're talking about or what year cycle you're in.

thanks,

I was thinking just the opposite, I would think you would "gain favor in the eyes of the community" by providing them the latest in saftey.

brian john · 09-05-2009, 05:57 PM

Some cities are so heavy in bureaucracy that no one wants to agree on anything for fear that one board member might lose one tiny bit of power to another board member. Others spend time arguing over mundane changes like should the color code be Black, Red, Blue, White or should the text say White, black, red , blue. Is it BOY or OBY. And on this I am serious.

And some cities are just full of idiots which of all of the listed reasons is number one.

MDShunk · 09-05-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschool

thanks,

I was thinking just the opposite, I would think you would "gain favor in the eyes of the community" by providing them the latest in saftey.

Contrary to popular belief, codes and standards are not especially popular with the average citizen in PA.

oldschool · 09-05-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDShunk

Contrary to popular belief, codes and standards are not especially popular with the average citizen in PA.

oh i am well aware of that

this is in MD
Montgomery Co
City of Gaithersburg

I thought they were of a different breed.

william1978 · 09-05-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

or there's a large lobbying effort blocking adoption of something newer.

This is what it usually is around here a GC's don't want to have to pay the electrical contractor more for the code changes.

JohnJ0906 · 09-06-2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschool

oh i am well aware of that

this is in MD
Montgomery Co
City of Gaithersburg

I thought they were of a different breed.

I believe they are going to the '08 soon. ManchesterSparky would be able to tell you for sure.

MDShunk · 09-06-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1978

This is what it usually is around here a GC's don't want to have to pay the electrical contractor more for the code changes.

You're not kidding there. The one and only town council meeting that I ever went to specifically because the code change was under consideration got downright rowdy. The GC's had nothing good to say about any of the proposed version updates. Code changes equal cost increases.

BadSplice · 09-06-2009, 08:25 AM

I'm so 3008.

william1978 · 09-06-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDShunk

You're not kidding there. The one and only town council meeting that I ever went to specifically because the code change was under consideration got downright rowdy. The GC's had nothing good to say about any of the proposed version updates. Code changes equal cost increases.

Same Sh!t different state.

brian john · 09-06-2009, 08:54 AM

So the board and the GC's and some ECs are against the adoption of the newest version NEC. A local board is to small a market for the manufactures to send arm twisters to these meetings.

So in the end the general public, those who codes are suppose to protect (?), is screwed no matter what happens.

BadSplice · 09-06-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

So in the end the general public, those who codes are suppose to protect (?), is screwed no matter what happens.

Yeah, I wonder how all those people are going to survive without the protection of the 2008 NEC

MDShunk · 09-06-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1978

Same Sh!t different state.

I went mainly to observe, but it was a real eye opener. Several times they threatened to adjourn the meeting to another time. Crazy. It wasn't like watching CSpan.

william1978 · 09-06-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadSplice

Yeah, I wonder how all those people are going to survive without the protection of the 2008 NEC

Just me personally I think they will be just fine without some of the 2008 changes.

william1978 · 09-06-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDShunk

I went mainly to observe, but it was a real eye opener. Several times they threatened to adjourn the meeting to another time. Crazy. It wasn't like watching CSpan.

So it was just like these town hall meetings that we are having all over the US about healthcare.

waco · 09-06-2009, 09:12 AM

The code adoption process must also reconcile the conflict involving what is good and practical in the newer code being retroactive to older structures. Seems to me, it is a real issue which has never been well addressed.

Many of the AHJs here are at odds over the way to address upgrading residential smoke detector systems, some even compromising with battery operated versus hard wired. So, if battery operated are good enough, then why the hard wired requirement?

Ever imagine looking at an old panel in a newly burned building where one AFCI has been installed to serve a new circuit of some sort? I've been more than impressed by the looks of a new forty dollar AFCI in a panel stuffed full of old wires and splices.

BadSplice · 09-06-2009, 09:15 AM

Speaking of AFCI's, has anyone ever proven that they actually work yet? They were amended out of the 2005 NEC that we adopted last time, but now we have to use them here with the 2008.

MDShunk · 09-06-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadSplice

Speaking of AFCI's, has anyone ever proven that they actually work yet? They were amended out of the 2005 NEC that we adopted last time, but now we have to use them here with the 2008.

Beats me. Look at it like this: Since they're now required most places, we have the benefit now of not having spend the intellectual energy to puzzle on whether they do any good or not. We can go 'round and 'round on their possible lack of benefit, but the fact remains that they are here to stay and the requirement is highly unlikely to get removed once it's in place.