CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Forum > General Electrical Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-14-2010, 11:21 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Vintage Sounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 2,472
Rewards Points: 1,046
Default 3-phase residential service

Does this exist anywhere? I have a friend who asked me about installing a 240v receptacle in his garage which he is turning into a wood shop to start a furniture-making business. I suggested a small sub-panel instead so he could power the rest of his equipment, and some fluorescent shop lighting too. I also told him he should plan ahead and look for gear with motors rated 208/230v, for when he moves to a real commercial space with 3-phase power.

It got me thinking though, have any of you guys ever brought a 3-phase service to a house? Do power companies allow this? Although it doesn't seem to exist in Canada I gathered from all the high-leg delta threads here that in some places in the US, houses did/do have 3-phase 240v. Seems useless for most things but a wood shop would be one exception I could think of. When a house with a 120/240v delta gets a service upgrade, do they retain 3-phase or get single phase? Do these houses have 3-phase air conditioners?

Vintage Sounds is online now   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Old 10-14-2010, 01:05 PM   #2
Fried Bologna um um good!
 
jwjrw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: nc
Posts: 8,092
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Sure you can get it "if it's available". Most resi areas do not have 3 phase. Here anyway. Ive seen condo buildings in resi areas with 3 phase but never a house. I know they exist thou in some areas.

__________________
The more I learn the less I seem to know......
jwjrw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 01:13 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Podagrower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 1,295
Rewards Points: 512
Default

I've only seen it in older areas where the power lines were overhead and the POCO could make 240 delta out of 2 phases. Hate dealing with it.
Podagrower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 01:15 PM   #4
Bilge Rat
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 3,485
Rewards Points: 2,114
Default

My house has a 120/208 3ř 4 wire wye.

A lot of my shop equipment is 3ř, both A/C units, and the well pump.

Rob
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 01:43 PM   #5
den
Senior Member
 
den's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: iowa
Posts: 367
Rewards Points: 250
Default

I live in a farming community and it is fairly common to see 3 phase for the grain drying bins. not to practical in my opinion to pay for 3 phase to be able to use it for maybe one mo or less a year
__________________
Old retired lineman turned electrician!
den is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 01:45 PM   #6
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: State of Euphoria
Posts: 14,058
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

We did an 800 amp three phase service in a house that had 13 & 1/2 baths
mcclary's electrical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 01:54 PM   #7
Modérateur
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NE Wi / Paris France{ In France for while }
Posts: 4,836
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

In France we have no issue to get three phase service pretty easy.

I know the POCO in Wisconsin if you get over 600 amp service you have to get them in three phase service but to get larger single phase it need a POCO engineer approveal.

Merci,
Marc
__________________
Bleu est beau.
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 02:39 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
ampman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: the greatest state ever bar none
Posts: 3,372
Rewards Points: 2,002
Default

i have seen alot both overhead and underground but like podagrower said only in older houses
__________________
even in the amish community the black guy goes to jail
ampman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 02:41 PM   #9
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 67
Rewards Points: 75
Default

In my neck of the woods, the only way to get 3-phase in residential is with a phase converter. That, or if your house is the size of the White House and you have very deep pockets.
Resi Sparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 05:56 PM   #10
Fried Bologna um um good!
 
jwjrw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: nc
Posts: 8,092
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resi Sparky View Post
In my neck of the woods, the only way to get 3-phase in residential is with a phase converter. That, or if your house is the size of the White House and you have very deep pockets.

My house is not that big..
__________________
The more I learn the less I seem to know......
jwjrw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 05:58 PM   #11
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 67
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwjrw View Post
My house is not that big..
I guess you won't be getting 3-phase then.
Resi Sparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 09:15 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
ampman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: the greatest state ever bar none
Posts: 3,372
Rewards Points: 2,002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resi Sparky View Post
I guess you won't be getting 3-phase then.
you can get any voltage you want just depends on how much money you have here the poco call it" contribution in aid to construction"
__________________
even in the amish community the black guy goes to jail
ampman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 09:28 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
220/221's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 6,696
Rewards Points: 2,170
Default

3 phase delta is common in older residential neighborhoods in Phoenix. I've always assumed it's because the first AC units available in the early 60's were 3 phase so they ran 3 phase service strictly for the new fangled Ac's.
220/221 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 01:06 AM   #14
etb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: KS
Posts: 395
Rewards Points: 250
Default

I've talked to folks around here that have encountered the high-leg delta in residential but never seen it myself (other than HOs who installed phase converters they bought or built). At the local electric co-op, if you've got 3ph lines right where your existing service is, you'll simply pay a reasonable fee for them to build you the service. Last one put in local was at guy's home woodshop used for production. If the 3ph lines aren't at your existing service, you pay the cost to bring the lines plus cost for them to build the service. In (very rural) areas with irrigation pivots poco puts in open-delta banks at farms so they can save that third wire.
etb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 01:10 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: WA
Posts: 4,064
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

No way is your friend going to pay for a 3 phase service. You should look into a roto phase of some kind for whatever equipment he gets.
nitro71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 10:43 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 737
Rewards Points: 504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitro71 View Post
No way is your friend going to pay for a 3 phase service. You should look into a roto phase of some kind for whatever equipment he gets.
phase converting VFD.

I'd love 3 phase when I build so I can have 3 phase AC and other things.
But when I was pricing things in the last few months the POCO wanted something like $45,000, something about the 800 meters of extra wire they would need to run to get from where they had 3 phase to where I wanted to build. But it would only cost my neighbors 900 bucks if they wanted 3 phase after I paid 45k.
Jeff000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 05:10 PM   #17
Professional Nit Picker
 
manchestersparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,720
Rewards Points: 1,082
Default

I have a house that I have been inspecting that has a 1200 amp 3 phase 120/208 volt electrical service.Complete with 100% generator back up. The place is so large they had to install a fire pump and storage tanks. It has 2- 200 amp 3 phase panels on each of its 3 levels.
So far they have had 6 rough in inspections, a service inspection, and a trench inspection.
manchestersparky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 12:05 AM   #18
kub
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: south jersey
Posts: 78
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
We did an 800 amp three phase service in a house that had 13 & 1/2 baths
i did the same as well house had 10&1/2 baths , but what happened with this house was the ho had to purchase his own pad mount trans. and pay to have primaries ran underground from a vault on the other side of the street which included a costly road opening permit because the street was recently repaved cost him a great deal of money
kub is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 12:29 AM   #19
Modérateur
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NE Wi / Paris France{ In France for while }
Posts: 4,836
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manchestersparky View Post
I have a house that I have been inspecting that has a 1200 amp 3 phase 120/208 volt electrical service.Complete with 100% generator back up. The place is so large they had to install a fire pump and storage tanks. It has 2- 200 amp 3 phase panels on each of its 3 levels.
So far they have had 6 rough in inspections, a service inspection, and a trench inspection.
Jezz that is pretty big home allright and that is pretty odd to see a firepump in resdentail unless you are in stick of woods which I know from time to time it will have one there.

I am kinda guessing that place may worth little over 4 millon Euros.

Merci.
Marc
__________________
Bleu est beau.
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 01:02 AM   #20
zap
 
tates1882's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: northwest
Posts: 746
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage Sounds View Post
Does this exist anywhere? I have a friend who asked me about installing a 240v receptacle in his garage which he is turning into a wood shop to start a furniture-making business. I suggested a small sub-panel instead so he could power the rest of his equipment, and some fluorescent shop lighting too. I also told him he should plan ahead and look for gear with motors rated 208/230v, for when he moves to a real commercial space with 3-phase power.

It got me thinking though, have any of you guys ever brought a 3-phase service to a house? Do power companies allow this? Although it doesn't seem to exist in Canada I gathered from all the high-leg delta threads here that in some places in the US, houses did/do have 3-phase 240v. Seems useless for most things but a wood shop would be one exception I could think of. When a house with a 120/240v delta gets a service upgrade, do they retain 3-phase or get single phase? Do these houses have 3-phase air conditioners?
The pco here will let you but you have to have a justified reason and lots of money. I've never seen it here.
Even up in Sun Valley where I've done 20 and 30,000 sqft mansions and never seen it. The power co has 3 phase every where here do to all the irragation pumps and harvest equipment. Even multi unit apartments the pco will pull 3 phase then sectionalize it between a,b,c phase to make single phase services. If that makes any sense. I've never seen all three phase inside a single unit or dwelling.


Last edited by tates1882; 10-16-2010 at 12:33 PM. Reason: more info from the man
tates1882 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
120v /240v residential 180° out of phase guitarboyled Commercial Electrical Forum 72 10-26-2012 06:08 PM
residential house 3 phase??? Murphy General Electrical Discussion 39 04-26-2010 07:13 AM
Residential service;under load A phase=140V B phase=99V litemkr Services and Service Equipment 20 11-17-2009 02:03 PM
3 phase 460v a/c 3 phase 210v service heatme PLCs, VFDs, Motors and Controls 3 09-30-2009 01:48 PM
residential service changes liverstos General Electrical Discussion 8 07-07-2008 06:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:20 PM.


Copyright © 2006-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com