gilamor

Do we need neutral for 240 volts oven or air-condition system
Some electrical oven state in the installation instruction that the neutral and ground can be bounded together and suggest to look at local code requirements
In Los Angeles County when I call the electrical code hotline some inspectors are saying that old appliances used to be connected with ground only but this requirement has been changed and now you must put neutral as well, other inspectors say to use the manufacture suggestions. When I asked electricians 20-40 years in the business they give the same answer. Some say that it is ok to omit the neutral for an air-conditioned but not for an oven
Does anyone know the requirement?

Ophir Amor
Amor electric
http://www.amorelectric.com
gil@amorelectric.com

Speedy Petey

Ophir, I don't mean to sound rude, but you possess an electrical master's license in California, yet you don't know this part of the code?

This is pretty basic stuff. If an appliance requires a neutral it requires a neutral. There is no ambiguity here.

OLDER codes had an exception where a household cooking appliance or dryer, that was 120/240v rated (meaning two hots and a neutral), could have the ground bonded to the neutral. This allowed SEU cable to be used or X/3NM cable without ground.
In these cases a neutral was ALWAYS required. Anyone saying that you could use only a ground was flat WRONG. The exception allowed the omission of the ground, NOT the neutral.
This exception has been gone for several code cycles and ANY new circuit rated 120/240v requires separate ground AND neutral conductors.

If a circuit is a straight 240v, such as an A/C, water heater, electric motor, etc, then NO neutral is or ever was required.

Celtic

What a specific appliance will require is specific to the appliance....however, a rather "safe" rule of thumb is:
- 99% of the time you need a neutral at an oven
- 99% of the time you don't need a neutral for an AC - not talking about some through the wall/window model....talking compressors, ducts, air handelers, etc.

The neutral-to-EGC connection IS allowed ONLY in certain installations:

From the '05 NEC:
This image from Mike Holt illustrates 250.140:


http://mikeholt.com/freegraphics.php?id=gvb


Of course, a local amendment can trump a NEC requirement.

__________________

randomkiller

I have heard a rumor that the board of examiners that administer the Electricians testing in Ca have done a study that shows if the test questions are too hard many applicants may develope a severe head ache that may result in brain tumors somewhere down the line, so they stick to the simple ones.

ie: if you open a box and have a black, red, and white wire...you get the idea.

__________________
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

"One Nation Under God"

Speedy Petey

Do the tests have a warning label:

WARNING: These tests have been known to cause severe headaches in the state of California.

JohnJ0906

I think they have cause headaches in other states too...

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One day at a Time"
All responses based on the '08 NEC
It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I'm not your solution.

Speedy Petey

Yeah, but they only cause cancer in California.

JohnJ0906

From all the smoking, alcohol and drug use the stress causes, I guess....

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One day at a Time"
All responses based on the '08 NEC
It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I'm not your solution.

randomkiller

Maybe it's just being in Cali that causes cancer in lab tests, I know I felt sick there after just talking to a few people.

__________________
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

"One Nation Under God"

Bkessler

Go ahead and make what you want of this but I passed both the ca journeymens and contractors without studying. And each one took less than an hour. My Michigans j-mans I studied on my own for six months and I used every second available and just squeeked by. In other words this as close to right to work as you can get.

__________________
When ls lunch?

randomkiller

That's what I had figured in relationship to a CA test. I bet they have more study guides in Spanish than english available.

__________________
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

"One Nation Under God"

Bkessler

You got it, RK because the journeymens test is knew to the state, they gave an extra year to people takeing the spanish version to comply. WHAT the f@#$?

__________________
When ls lunch?

frank

Don't worry about the language. In 50 years all Americans will be speaking Spanish and you English speakers will be the ones to get the extra year !!!!!


Frank

randomkiller

Maybe we should leave the country long enough to get citizenship somewhere else and then come back and become repatrioted to get the benefits immigrants get.

__________________
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

"One Nation Under God"

sbrn33

Do you think the OP is a real electrician. He has a really nice website, if I didn't know any better I would hire him. Other than the fact that he doesn't even know how to wire the range or an air Conditioner.

Bkessler

RK finally a topic it sounds were in total agreement. Bk

__________________
When ls lunch?

bauler

List you license number on your website so the Contractors Board doesn't bust you. Suggest you get rid of the "low price" so you don't attract bottom feeders.

jrclen

Duplicate post. Now I know how not to do that.

jrclen

If we pay for the tea we ruined, can we come back there?

Speedy Petey