AllStar

Hey guys, I'm tired of paying high prices to estimators, for a job I don't even have yet. On smaller jobs I would like to bid them myself. Any info on how to bid using the point system? And how much per point? Thanks !!!

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Grimlock

Do you use an estimating service or do you have full time estimators?

AllStar

I use an estimating service, but I'd like to save the money on the smaller jobs.

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Grimlock

Why not just estimate them yourself? Then you don't have to pay anyone. Just a thought.

Estimating is not rocket science.

Black4Truck

What happens if they screw up the bid and your profit winds up being 1/3 of what the "estimator" figured

AllStar

I'd like to use the point system. Ive been told its about $90 bucks a point. Point being a switch, outlet, or fixture.

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Grimlock

I've never heard of the point system. Do you reward the estimator that amount for getting a job? Kind of like working on commission? In this economy I doubt you'll find anyone interested, unless they do an extreme lowball and get a ton of work, get a fat check from you for all the low bid jobs rewarded and then hit the road with a fat wallet, hell sign me up! I bet I could land every job you pass across my desk!

pjmurph2002

Allstar -

If you don't mind, would you please share what / how the estimating services charge for various projects?

Thanks

AllStar

The last bid cost me $300 bucks. the guy said it took him 17 hours to bid it out. I could of bid it myself with out any software in that amount of time. It was a store that measured 40 feet wide by 140 feet long.

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AllStar

Maby you've never heard of it but its a tried and true method. However it only works on smaller jobs. Larger jobs have too many variables.

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The Estimator

Allstar,
I have been an estimator for 40 years. I have bid everything from an outhouse to a nuke powerhouse. In commercial work the best takeoff is a complete takeoff, count and measure everything . Points or holes or outlets do not work for commercial work because of the complexity of the work. 17 hours sounds like high but some drawings take 15 minuits ans some take days.

JayH

I would have that estimated in two hours.

1 1/2 hours would be waiting for my gear and fixture quote.

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waco

I do my own, but if I have to lose money doing them, I'll hire them done and I'll keep it that way as long as they are helping me make money.

How I see it is not whether or not I can save money by not using them, but in deciding I think they are making me enough money to make them worthwhile. During slow times, it pays me to do my own, but doing estimates doesn't get the work done.

chiefestimator

AllStar - I worked for a residential company about 30 years ago that used a "per hole" system for apatments and condos. At that time, it was $9.00 per hole. A 3-way switch counted for two holes. Add the cost of fixtures, gear, feeders and service drops and you're done.

I do however, agree with Estimator. Unit pricing systems like this are very unreliable on commercial work. You could get hurt.

chiefestimator

Hey! - You trying to bust up our scam? It's taken years to build up the myth that you can't do your own estimates.

Seriously, anyone who has the time should learn how to estimate their own projects. If you do not know how to estimate, how can you review others estimators work? Are you just going to take their word for it? It's your money (didn't I say that before?).

If you do not have any training as an estimator, get it. Without training, it is easy to leave costs out of the estimate. There are both books and classes available on the internet. Many NECA chapters put on estimating courses.

The cost of outside estimating companies varies widely across the country. There are two pricing models.

The first is on a per hour basis. I have seen rates from $30.00 per hour to $75 per hour. Generally, the firms in expensive areas (such as New York) cost more. The main problem with this model is tusting that the estimator is not over charging you.

For complete line item estimates, a general rule of thumb is small projects (3 or 4 sheets) take about 3 hours per sheet. As you get to 20 sheets, it takes about 2 hours per sheet. By the time you get to 100 sheets, it takes about an hour per sheet. These figures can be influenced by the quality and scale of the drawing. They are also influenced by the size of the specification book (if the specs are not on the plans).

The other model is based on the overall cost of the project. These companies post a list of prices based on what the estimate comes up with for a sell cost. I have a small problem with this model, as it does not account for complexity. A large dollar project (such as installing a large generator) can be on 2 plan sheets. I similar costing project (such as a grammer school) can be on 20 plans sheets. It's going to take a lot longer to bid the school.

AllStar

Thanks guys, I think I'm going to bite the bullit and just buy an estimating software, take the time to learn how to use it, and do my own. I did the math. It'll take a year for it to pay for its self, with what I pay an estimator now.

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nolabama

That spells trouble - like charging per drop. Not a good way to do it. But then again if you think you can always make money at 90 bucks a drop, go right ahead. If that works in your market who am I to tell you not to.

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McCaa

For tract houses (which aren't doing crap right now because of the economy) we estimated them at $125 per point, $1,850 for the electrical service and added the light fixtures on top of that (cost plus 35%). We always made a 50% profit margin and were on the lower side for years. We did 150 houses a year. Now since work is slow and its only me and a helper, we're pushing prices down $120 per point, $1,650 for the service plus light fixtures (cost plus 20%). My brother in law who used to have his business in the Bronx, NY charged $225 per point, $3,800 for the service and light fixtures were extra (cost plus 100%) and he was swamped before he moved back here to California.

This is my formula for standard houses with 125 amp panels. This may or may not work for you depending on what your cost are. My overhead is pretty low so for me it works.

This system will NOT work on commercial jobs as you will loose you butt on it.

There it is. Doesn't mean it will work for anyone else, but if we work backwards (cost of material, cost of labor, hours of labor, markup, overhead, etc.) this method keeps us within 2 to 5%.

Best of luck!

AllStar

Thanks, for the info. Thats around where I figured I needed to be.

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SoSpec

Allstar,

You paid $300 for an estimate that you were told took 17 hours? I have been estimating for over 38 years, for $17.65 an hour you are not going to get a decent estimate.