subelect

I will give a quick synopsis and then ask my question.
The customer is a farmer out in the boonies who wanted to power up his hydraulic cattle chute. Our POCO had run overhead to a pole on the edge of his concrete pad that the chute is setting on.
He plans to finish building a metal calf shed on the concrete pad later this fall, but he wanted power for his 110 volt outlets on the chute and his 220 volt hydraulic pump.
We had to back order an RB panel with more ckts, or go with an 8/16 RB that we had available.
The boss made the decision to have me install the 8/16 and feed it with #2 Cu THHN from the overhead. I backfed with the largest double pole breaker that we had in the shop, 60 amp. The main lugs are unused.
I finished up running the conduits and wiring it yesterday. So, it is all set for now, but I used 7 of the 8 ckts just for the chute. It leaves me almost no room for the new building.
Maybe the farmer will never get that building completed, but if he does, he is going to want several 20 amp outlets and lights for heat lamps and such.
Is there anything wrong with running a subpanel off that panel by using the main lugs? The panel has a main breaker (with a restraining device).
Otherwise, I will either have to replace the panel with a larger one (which would be a pain) or use several tandem breakers to free up space for another breaker.
We will probably not pull a permit for the new building.
Thanks,
Rick

Jeff000

In Canada by code you could add a panel, it wouldn't be good form really though. But on the same note that installation would not pass code either, as you are required to have at least 2 empty spots for future.

Would have been easier to wait for the proper panel, and done it right the first time. I hope he make you eat the costs of the panel change out.

Buck Parrish

Subelect, If your panel is rated for the load it will carry. Then install a sub panel. Nothing to it. It's done all the time. Or use the tandem breakers. No problem they are approoved for use in this panel. You did say 8/16. So use 16.

sparkyboys

You may run into more problems than yall think. what kind of lights will there be? #2 cu is rated for 115a w/75 deg lugs while using 80% 95-100a. you may have to use 1/0 cu or 3/0 al in order to at least have 80% of the full power which would be 125a out of 150a.

plus in order to run paralel with the main has to be at least 1/0.

subelect

Would have been easier to wait for the proper panel, and done it right the first time. I hope he make you eat the costs of the panel change out.[/quote]
Thanks for your useful input.

Buck, I thought that it would be acceptable to feed a sub panel using the main lugs, but I could not find anything in the Code that addressed this one.

Sparky, he is going to want a few porcel. fixtures and 3 or 4 20 amp ckts for heat lamps. The heat lamps are almost never coincident, but he will want them in multiple locations to make it as flexible as possible. By far, the heaviest loads are all ready taken care of: the branding irons and dehorners at the chute and that 3 hp hydraulic pump. The most load on the subpanel will be 40 amps for a few hours every week in the spring, and then it will be idle the rest of the year. The #2 feeding all of it will be plenty.

sparkyboys

Thanks for your useful input.

Buck, I thought that it would be acceptable to feed a sub panel using the main lugs, but I could not find anything in the Code that addressed this one.

Sparky, he is going to want a few porcel. fixtures and 3 or 4 20 amp ckts for heat lamps. The heat lamps are almost never coincident, but he will want them in multiple locations to make it as flexible as possible. By far, the heaviest loads are all ready taken care of: the branding irons and dehorners at the chute and that 3 hp hydraulic pump. The most load on the subpanel will be 40 amps for a few hours every week in the spring, and then it will be idle the rest of the year. The #2 feeding all of it will be plenty.[/quote]

what happens when he builds something else next to it that needs more juice. Always upsell the product that you are doing. it will be easier for the customer in long run.
And why would you run copper in the air when al is lighter?

electrocop

Ok i would like to be brief and i hope you guys understand what i am asking two panel boxes in a room surface mounted height and clearances ok compying to article 110. the bigger panel receives its power from the two top hot lugs 125 amp main breaker this panel has a 40 amp breaker that will feed the next panel box which is smaller and it will receive the power also too a 40 amp main breaker not through the hot bus lugs because it has none is this legal for 40 amp breaker feeding directly another 40 amp breaker i am not yet a master electrician or inspector please reply to electrocop or to thegamebird2003@yahoo.com GOD BLESS the masters of electrical out their