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Old 05-17-2010, 07:20 PM   #1
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Default Gas pipe bonding

I'm doing a service change on Wednesday and I'm just not clear on what to do about bonding the gas pipe. In the past I've typically had inspectors want me to bond hot, cold and gas at the (gas) water heater. This place was formerly an "all-electric" house, but recently the heat pump failed and was replaced with a gas forced air furnace. That's the only gas in the place, everything else is electric.
I'm adding a ground rod and a #6 to the galv steel water main, but what to do with the gas?

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Old 05-17-2010, 07:54 PM   #2
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As long as the furnace is wired you do not have to do anything to the gas piping.250.104(B). The egc will suffice unless the gas piping is the flexible CSST piping. In that case you will probably need a #6 from anywhere on the piping, but not on the CSST pipe itself, to the main panel.


You should also be aware of art. 250.94 for the intersystem bonding.

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Old 05-17-2010, 08:21 PM   #3
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The gas PUCO here doesn't want any bonding to their lines at all. Best go with the jurisdiction's wants.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:58 PM   #4
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gas pipe bonding?
No way man.
250.52(b)1: metal underground gas piping system (shall not be used)
250.104(b) there's an allowance here for it to be bonded, but I assume it is above ground...?
(all code 2005)
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKill View Post
gas pipe bonding?
No way man.
250.52(b)1: metal underground gas piping system (shall not be used)
250.104(b) there's an allowance here for it to be bonded, but I assume it is above ground...?
(all code 2005)


Buzzkill,,,bonding a gas pipe does not make it a GEC,,,,,Dennis's statement was correct.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKill View Post
gas pipe bonding?
No way man.
250.52(b)1: metal underground gas piping system (shall not be used)
250.104(b) there's an allowance here for it to be bonded, but I assume it is above ground...?
(all code 2005)
Buzz everytime you wire a gas furnace the gas pipe gets bonded. Most all the utility gas companies have a coupling or union, called a dielectric union, that isolates the underground pipe from the internal pipes.

The gas companies do not want there pipes used as a gec. They are not used as a gec when we bond the gas lines inside the structure.

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Old 05-17-2010, 09:39 PM   #7
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hmph....
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:42 PM   #8
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Buzz, we are required to bond the gas pipe. Read art.250.104(B) . Fortunately this article allows the egc of the circuit to be used as the bond.

Quote:
250.104(B) Other Metal Piping. Where installed in or attached to a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s). The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.
FPN: Bonding all piping and metal air ducts within the premises will provide additional safety.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:45 PM   #9
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actually I've never seen it or done, but I guess I see the need, somewhat...bonding a gas line just seems stupid and dangerous...
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKill View Post
actually I've never seen it or done, but I guess I see the need, somewhat...bonding a gas line just seems stupid and dangerous...
Buzz, you don't doing anything special. Every time you wire the gas furnace it automatically bonds the gas pipe because the pipe is attached the housing. The egc does it as soon as you connect it to the ground terminal or wire in the junction box of the furnace.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:52 PM   #11
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This is what we have to do in Mecklenburg County.


Required Bonding of CSST Piping


NEW CSST RULE!
The effective date of this Rule is December 1, 2009.
The Statutory authority for Rule-making is G. S. 143-136; 143-138.
2009 NC Fuel Gas Code
310.2 CSST Bonding. (090310 Item B-2)
310.2 CSST Bonding. CSST Gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall not be smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.

CSST HISTORY

As a result of a class action lawsuit involving the installation of CSST piping, the manufacturers of the products now require additional bonding above the minimum requirements of the NEC.
The bonding conductor that is required by the manufacturers' installation instructions shall be done by a properly licensed North Carolina electrical contractor. The bonding instructions shall be furnished to the licensed electrical contractor and to the electrical inspector by the installer of the CSST piping system. The electrical contractor shall follow the instructions precisely as provided by the installer of the CSST piping system.
The bonding of the CSST piping is considered electrical contracting and no portions of the bonding system may be installed by the Mechanical Contractor or others. The complete bonding system SHALL BE installed by the properly licensed Electrical Contractor. (Bonding Clamps, Wire, and all connections)
Two inspections MAY BE required when the bonding system is installed:
1. If any part of the bonding system will be hidden by wall covering, floor covering, ceiling covering, or any other material or objects that will prevent the complete bonding system from being seen, a rough inspection will be required.
2. If the entire bonding system can be seen continuously without any obstructions then only a final inspection will be required.
Beginning September 1, 2007 an additional Electrical permit will be required for the inspection of the CSST piping system bonding. Certificates of Occupancy and Certificates of Compliance will not be issued until the bonding of the CSST piping system is inspected and completed.


Here is some more info on CSST bonding.
http://www.charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyres...mitforCSST.pdf

Last edited by william1978; 05-17-2010 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
Buzz, you don't doing anything special. Every time you wire the gas furnace it automatically bonds the gas pipe because the pipe is attached the housing. The egc does it as soon as you connect it to the ground terminal or wire in the junction box of the furnace.
the name is BuzzKill. Get it straight.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
Buzz, you don't doing anything special. Every time you wire the gas furnace it automatically bonds the gas pipe because the pipe is attached the housing. The egc does it as soon as you connect it to the ground terminal or wire in the junction box of the furnace.
That I should have figured out or known, but I blanked.
I'm stuck on using gas pipes as an GE only as being non code.
Again, I am shot down in flames talking code with Dennis.
One day I will win dammit!
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:40 AM   #14
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Again, I am shot down in flames talking code with Dennis. One day I will win dammit!
I have no doubt you will. Buzzkill---- I like buzz better
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:14 AM   #15
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My Inspector just recently told me he was going to start looking for this... and I am confused about when it should be done, I thought if the furncace is hard piped with black iron, and is propoerly wired to the electrical system, it's technically already bonded, I am going to show him this thread and clear the air once and for all...
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VersaJoe View Post
My Inspector just recently told me he was going to start looking for this... and I am confused about when it should be done, I thought if the furncace is hard piped with black iron, and is propoerly wired to the electrical system, it's technically already bonded, I am going to show him this thread and clear the air once and for all...
The reason for bonding the gas pipe is because some jobs use that flex gas pipe called CSST and when it is used that is when it needs to be bonded. You have to bond it by the manufactures instructions which is usually a #6 and larger.
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VersaJoe View Post
My Inspector just recently told me he was going to start looking for this... and I am confused about when it should be done, I thought if the furncace is hard piped with black iron, and is propoerly wired to the electrical system, it's technically already bonded, I am going to show him this thread and clear the air once and for all...



You, Dennis and William are correct. If it's all black iron, then it's considered bonded (per 250.104 (b) by the EGC sized per 250.122,,,


if there's ANY CSST, ANYWHERE,,,even a short piece behind the stove, then you bond the pipe and size it per 250.66 (for wardflex),,,the other manufacturers call for a #6 no matter what size the GEC is
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
You, Dennis and William are correct. If it's all black iron, then it's considered bonded (per 250.104 (b) by the EGC sized per 250.122,,,


if there's ANY CSST, ANYWHERE,,,even a short piece behind the stove, then you bond the pipe and size it per 250.66 (for wardflex),,,the other manufacturers call for a #6 no matter what size the GEC is
I have heard that if all the have is that short 3' or 4' piece behind the stove or at the Heat unit that that was OK. Has anyone else heard this?
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:06 AM   #19
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FYI, the 2009 International Fuel Gas Code and the 2009 International Residential Code now require ALL CSST, regardless of whether or not the manufactures require it, to be bonded with a #6 AWG wire from the point where the gas service enters the building to the electrical service equipment grounding electrode system.

Here is the IFGC section;

Quote:

310.1 Pipe and tubing other than CSST.
Each above-ground
portion of a gas
piping system other than corrugated stainless
steel tubing (CSST) that is likely to become energized shall be
electrically continuous and bonded to an effective ground-fault
current path. Gas
piping other than CSST shall be considered to
be bonded where it is connected to appliances that are connected
to the
equipment grounding conductor of the circuit
supplying that
appliance.

310.1.1 CSST.
Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST)
gas
piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service
grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service
enters the building. The bonding jumper shall be not
smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.


And Here is the IRC section;

Quote:

G2411.1 (310.1) Pipe and
tubing other than CSST.
Each
above-ground portion of a
gas piping system other than corrugated
stainless steel tubing (CSST), that is likely to becomeenergized
shall be electrically continuous and bonded to an effective
ground-fault current path.
Gas piping, other than CSST, shall be
considered to be bondedwhere it is connected to
appliances that
are connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the circuit
supplying that
appliance.

G2411.1.1 (310.1.1) CSST.
Corrugated stainless steel tubing
(CSST)
gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical
service grounding electrode system at the point where
the gas service enters the building. The
bonding jumper

shall be not smaller than 6AWGcopper wire or equivalent.


Chris

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Old 05-18-2010, 12:23 PM   #20
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Good info Chris

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