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Old 08-06-2009, 01:54 AM   #1
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Default ground crimp/barrel question

where do you guys place the crimp on your ground wires - at the back, closest to the box, or at the front, closer to the ends?

one concern I've always had about using these crimps is that they can leave the sharp ends of the ground wires exposed, possibly allowing them to poke into other wire or inside of wire nuts. placing a crimp at the very end of the wires would help to prevent this problem, but I've been told the crimp should be at the back of the wire.

when I was in the union in 2003, we were using regular wire nuts for grounds. when did the code shift away from regular wire nuts, and was there a particular reason that they changed the code? I'm curious about the subject because I don't particularly like some of the alternatives my shop has been using.

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Old 08-06-2009, 04:27 AM   #2
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There was no NEC change that forces the use of crimps over wirenuts.

You can use any listed connector.

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Old 08-06-2009, 07:17 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Run-EMT View Post
when I was in the union in 2003, we were using regular wire nuts for grounds. when did the code shift away from regular wire nuts, and was there a particular reason that they changed the code? I'm curious about the subject because I don't particularly like some of the alternatives my shop has been using.
I agree with Bob. There has been no change regarding this.

Who told you there was? You can go back to them and explain so others don't get the wrong information as well.

I crimp outside the box and leave the tail(s) longer. Then I fold the crimp to the back of the box so the tail is the same length as the other wires.
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Old 08-06-2009, 07:42 AM   #4
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I don't like crimps as a lot of the work I do involves removing them. Way too many people shove the crimps into the back of the box and cut off the extra ground wire instead of folding it into the box before crimping. The requirement is that ALL the ground wires are 6" long minimum. But, they're quick and cheap which seems to drive everything these days.

I typically use a green wire nut if I need one or two tails for switches or receptacles and a 6 or 8 spot push-in if I need more. I also usually wind up using push-in type connectors to reconnect the short stubs left when the grounds are cut short.
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Old 08-06-2009, 08:49 AM   #5
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I use crimp sleeves, but not because the code compells me to do so. I just like the space it saves in the box. I crimp them at the end of the bundle, outside the box, and fold it back in (except the tail to the device).
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:04 AM   #6
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I had a boss who believed crimps were mandatory due to the word "permanent" in the code wording.

I don't use the crimps myself. To me, they're just another thing to buy and another tool to carry around, when I already have wirenuts.

Don't put the crimp in the back, that's just stupid. If you have to take that loose, or someone else has to years down the road, then you have to cut the grounds very short, and we know what a pain that is.
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MDShunk View Post
I use crimp sleeves, but not because the code compells me to do so. I just like the space it saves in the box. I crimp them at the end of the bundle, outside the box, and fold it back in (except the tail to the device).
exactly what I do Single gang box I fold them back in up and down, multi gang box I push them to one side, crimp, cut the tails off I dont need then fold them to the opposite side.
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:05 AM   #8
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where do you guys place the crimp on your ground wires - at the back, closest to the box, or at the front, closer to the ends?
I place ground crimps in a garbage can.
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:55 AM   #9
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I place ground crimps in a garbage can.
I think the correct term would be a "trash receptacle"
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:41 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
I crimp outside the box and leave the tail(s) longer. Then I fold the crimp to the back of the box so the tail is the same length as the other wires.
Moi Aussie..
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDShunk View Post
I use crimp sleeves, but not because the code compells me to do so. I just like the space it saves in the box. I crimp them at the end of the bundle, outside the box, and fold it back in (except the tail to the device).
Agreed, especially when there are a ton of wires in the box and/or a lot of devices. Cut them halfway, fold them back leaving the pigtails only for the devices. What drives me nuts is the ground wire is not insulated in romex. Always seems to be one just close enough to a device when you are finishing off the box to have it spark on you.
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:23 PM   #12
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Crimp sleeves and wire nuts are both listed "pressure type" connectors. The Code makes no distinction between either one.
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:31 PM   #13
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I use crimp sleeves, but not because the code compells me to do so. I just like the space it saves in the box. I crimp them at the end of the bundle, outside the box, and fold it back in (except the tail to the device).
Do they (crimp sleeves) still come with the rubber jacket you install over the barrel? And do you use them on EGC's, or just leave them bare? Curious?
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:35 PM   #14
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Do they (crimp sleeves) still come with the rubber jacket you install over the barrel? And do you use them on EGC's, or just leave them bare? Curious?
The rubber things are available seperately if you want to use the crimp sleeves on your hot wires. They don't come with the crimp sleeves. I only use crimps on the EGC's, so I obviously don't insulate the completed crimp. On the odd job where I do need to do insulated crimps on the hot wires (jobs for the railroad almost always have this requirement) I use the preinsulated crimp sleeves that look more like a white nylon wirenut.
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Old 08-06-2009, 07:46 PM   #15
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I would suggest to also be sure and use only the genuine copper Buchanan/Ideal crimp sleeves if there will be any amount of moisture present at all.
I’ve used the T&B Holub ones before and they are just coated steel. Not only are they a lot harder to crimp and remove, but they also rust/corrode like a Mo’Fo’ when used in locations like inside WP boxes.
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Old 08-06-2009, 08:32 PM   #16
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I would suggest to also be sure and use only the genuine copper Buchanan/Ideal crimp sleeves if there will be any amount of moisture present at all.
I’ve used the T&B Holub ones before and they are just coated steel. Not only are they a lot harder to crimp and remove, but they also rust/corrode like a Mo’Fo’ when used in locations like inside WP boxes.
Ideal makes crimp sleeves under their own brand, without the Buchanan brand name on them, and they are just yellow chromated steel. I only use the copper Buchanan crimp sleeves.
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:02 PM   #17
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Ideal makes crimp sleeves under their own brand, without the Buchanan brand name on them, and they are just yellow chromated steel. I only use the copper Buchanan crimp sleeves.
I use neither. But that's obvious by now.
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:38 PM   #18
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Twist and cap. Why all the extra steps?
Stak-ons for stranded, The only crimps needed.

... and another thought... Why carry 'strippers' for the finish? Linesmans do it all. Travel light with universal tools.
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:39 PM   #19
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... and another thought... Why carry 'strippers' for the finish? Linesmans do it all. Travel light with universal tools.
Because strippers are much lighter than linesmans. I'm trying to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome.
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:44 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by itsunclebill View Post
I don't like crimps as a lot of the work I do involves removing them. ...........
If you take more than 10 seconds to remove a crimp, you're doing it wrong.

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