hot tub - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

charlie Bob · 11-06-2009, 08:21 PM

Customer wants a hot tub installed.
Manufactor calls for #8 thhn wire for ungrounded conductors, grounded conductor and EGC, a dedicated 50 amp circuit ( Hot tub name plate 230 v 40 amp)

The customer wants it in a garage, there's a few issues with the spot:
- right above it there's a garage door opener pluged into a recp.
-Above and 2 feet to the left there's a 2 bulb fluorescent light fixture.
-Above hot tub there's the rails for garage door

After talking inspector he told me that he doesn't require the concrete pad in the garage to be bonded but he will require the rails bonded.
As for the garage door opener recep., he tells me to take recep. out and put a blank cover on it.

Ok here's my questions:

1- Do you all agree on the garage door rails having to be bonded?
i would think they are not likely to get energized, and so be left out of the requierement.
2- Would that blank be enough?
3- I was thinking about removing fluorescent fixture and be done with it.
or install an adequate fixt. if customer desires.
4- since i need #8 EGC from the panel to subpanel, does #6 w/ground have a #10 or #8 EGC. ( I'll be using NM from panel to subpanel)

Thanks.

rewire · 11-06-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie Bob

Customer wants a hot tub installed.
Manufactor calls for #8 thhn wire for ungrounded conductors, grounded conductor and EGC, a dedicated 50 amp circuit ( Hot tub name plate 230 v 40 amp)

The customer wants it in a garage, there's a few issues with the spot:
- right above it there's a garage door opener pluged into a recp.
-Above and 2 feet to the left there's a 2 bulb fluorescent light fixture.
-Above hot tub there's the rails for garage door

After talking inspector he told me that he doesn't require the concrete pad in the garage to be bonded but he will require the rails bonded.
As for the garage door opener recep., he tells me to take recep. out and put a blank cover on it.

Ok here's my questions:

1- Do you all agree on the garage door rails having to be bonded?
i would think they are not likely to get energized, and so be left out of the requierement.
2- Would that blank be enough?
3- I was thinking about removing fluorescent fixture and be done with it.
or install an adequate fixt. if customer desires.
4- since i need #8 EGC from the panel to subpanel, does #6 w/ground have a #10 or #8 EGC. ( I'll be using NM from panel to subpanel)

Thanks.

If within 5 ft yes on bonding the blank cover as long as you cap the wires I wouldn't see a problem ,remove the fixture and #6nm will be fine

Mr. Sparkle · 11-06-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie Bob

I'll be using NM from panel to subpanel)

Thanks.

Make sure they will let you get away with the bare ground to the new sub since it is for a hot tub....just saying CYA.

charlie Bob · 11-06-2009, 09:05 PM

thanks.
i'm really surprise he's not enforcing bonding the concrete pad that hot tub sits on. i would think that is just as important or maybe more than the rails themself.

william1978 · 11-06-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Make sure they will let you get away with the bare ground to the new sub since it is for a hot tub....just saying CYA.

If I'm not mistaken the insulated ground wire is for the branch cir.

waco · 11-06-2009, 09:27 PM

#8 and #6 NMC have #10 EGCs, per the code as I know it. I think the rails should be bonded, I don't think the slab needs to be an equipotential grid and capping the opener outlet is good enough.

william1978 · 11-06-2009, 09:28 PM

Can you stand in the hot tub and grab the garage door rails? What was the inspectors reason for not requiring to bond the concrete? Does anyone know if there is a building code that would pertain to putting a hot tub in a garage? Surely the sheetrock above the tub over time would fall.

NolaTigaBait · 11-06-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1978

Can you stand in the hot tub and grab the garage door rails? What was the inspectors reason for not requiring to bond the concrete? Does anyone know if there is a building code that would pertain to putting a hot tub in a garage? Surely the sheetrock above the tub over time would fall.

Welcome to the conversation.

william1978 · 11-06-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NolaTigaBait

Welcome to the conversation.

Thank you and Welcome to the forum.

NolaTigaBait · 11-06-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1978

Thank you and Welcome to the forum.

Thank you. I'm new here.

william1978 · 11-06-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NolaTigaBait

Thank you. I'm new here.

Me too.

Mr. Sparkle · 11-06-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1978

If I'm not mistaken the insulated ground wire is for the branch cir.

I agree 100% but there are inspectors out there who feel the new sub, since it is being installed in order to feed the tub.........

kbsparky · 11-07-2009, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie Bob

thanks.
i'm really surprise he's not enforcing bonding the concrete pad that hot tub sits on. i would think that is just as important or maybe more than the rails themself.

How does one "bond" an existing slab of concrete?

JohnJ0906 · 11-07-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie Bob

Customer wants a hot tub installed.
Manufactor calls for #8 thhn wire for ungrounded conductors, grounded conductor and EGC, a dedicated 50 amp circuit ( Hot tub name plate 230 v 40 amp)

The customer wants it in a garage, there's a few issues with the spot:
- right above it there's a garage door opener pluged into a recp.
-Above and 2 feet to the left there's a 2 bulb fluorescent light fixture.
-Above hot tub there's the rails for garage door

After talking inspector he told me that he doesn't require the concrete pad in the garage to be bonded but he will require the rails bonded.
As for the garage door opener recep., he tells me to take recep. out and put a blank cover on it.

Ok here's my questions:

1- Do you all agree on the garage door rails having to be bonded?
i would think they are not likely to get energized, and so be left out of the requierement.

Are they within 5' of the inside tub walls? If so, they are required to be bonded. "Likely to be energized" doesn't apply.

2- Would that blank be enough?
3- I was thinking about removing fluorescent fixture and be done with it.
or install an adequate fixt. if customer desires.
Check 680.43(B)(1) - (b) or (c) would apply here, I think
4- since i need #8 EGC from the panel to subpanel, does #6 w/ground have a #10 or #8 EGC. ( I'll be using NM from panel to subpanel)

Thanks.

A lot of these answers depend on the ceiling height, and how close these things are to the tub.
Take a look at 680.43 ('08 NEC)
Also, keep in mind that a receptacle is required between 6' and 10' of the tub.

steelersman · 11-07-2009, 08:39 AM

Yeah and why the hell would you blank off an outlet that you need for the garage door opener to work? Just install a new receptacle within the 15 foot rule so that would take away the possibility that someone would try to plug into the ceiling recep.

And William makes a good point about the sheetrock deteriorating over time. This sounds like an ignorant redneck idea to put a hottub in the garage.

nolabama · 11-07-2009, 09:05 AM

a yankee redneck hot tub
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/vi...ot-tub-167717/