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Old 03-12-2010, 03:11 PM   #1
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Alright i have a side job in Mass and this is my first major side job. Well its an addition with a Garage on the first floor with an in law apartment on the second floor and a storage attic. It is connected to the existing house but has no interior doors between them. i have went to 3 different supply companies, one saying 1430, then 1560, and last 1900 for stock and im almost one hundred percent certain i have included all the materials. so im going to be doing this addition with another friend. i am having a hard time finding a price or a way to price my labor. does anyone have any insight? i would say my friend and i work at an average pace. so i will include my stock list in this thread to give you an idea. to briefly explain the garage downstairs will have unfinished walls and will not have a typical garage door it will be framed to look like one with a real door built into the garage look alike door. and it will have a work bench which call for some quads, then upstairs like i said is just an in law apartment with a back deck. so here is my stock list please let me know how you would price the labor or any insight on it, thanks! Also i guess he got a quote and it was too high so i would like to price it going a little easy on the guy so i can get the job.

Boxes
48 - single nail-ons
10 2 gang nail-ons
4 round nail-ons
2 Fan rated boxes w/ brackets
4 round weatherproof boxes (white)
2 single weatherproof boxes (white)


Devices
40 15a tamper-proof duplex receptacles (white)
12 15a single pole switches (white)
2 20a single Pole switches. (white)
8 15a Three-way switches (white)
1- 20a single tamper-proof Receptacle (white)
5 - 20a tamper-proof GFCI Receptacles (white)
1 240v/30a Flush Dryer Plug
1 240v/50a Range Plug surface mount


Covers
10 single switch plates (white)
3 2 gang switch plates (white)
40 single receptacles covers (white)
4 quad receptacles covers (white)
2 single bubble covers


Fixtures
1 5 recess fixture with trim and bulbs (ic rated)
10 6 recess fixture with trim and bulbs (ic rated)
2 8' Fluorescent strip lights w/bulbs


Breakers
3 15a AFCI Murray breakers(Bedroom,Fire Alarm, Living Room)

1 20a AFCI Murray breakers(Dining Room)

10 20a Murray breakers(1st floor lighting, 2 first floor receptacle cir, 2 benchtop outlets, washing machine, Refrigerator,2 small appliance branch cir, Bathroom)

2 30a 2-pole Murray breakers(Water Heater,Dryer)

1 50a 2-pole Murray breaker(stove)


Miscellaneous
1 - Bucket of 1500 Insulated Staples
12 Staples (8/3)
1 Box Yellow wire nuts
1 Box Red wire nuts
8 threaded 3/8 romex conn
40 Plastic bang-on Romex connectors (T&B's)
1 - threaded romex conn


Wire
45' 8/3
45' 10/2

45' - 10/3

250' 14/3

500' 14/2

1000' 12/2



Smokes
2 smoke/carbon detectors
2 - ionization detectors

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Old 03-12-2010, 03:14 PM   #2
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By your list of breakers, I assume you're still on the 2005?

You're way way short on 12/2, 14/2 and 14/3.

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Old 03-12-2010, 03:25 PM   #3
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I generally figure 13' of Romex per box. You are indeed short.
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
By your list of breakers, I assume you're still on the 2005?

You're way way short on 12/2, 14/2 and 14/3.
no mass is on the 2008 can you elaborate on where i went wrong? and possibly what i should have?
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
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no mass is on the 2008 can you elaborate on where i went wrong? ......
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGC622 View Post
.................
Breakers
3 – 15a AFCI Murray breakers(Bedroom,Fire Alarm, Living Room)

1 – 20a AFCI Murray breakers(Dining Room)

10 – 20a Murray breakers(1st floor lighting, 2 first floor receptacle cir, 2 benchtop outlets, washing machine, Refrigerator,2 small appliance branch cir, Bathroom)........
Bold blue circuits should be AFCI too.

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and possibly what i should have?
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.................

250' – 14/3

500' – 14/2

1000' – 12/2

...........
You could easily use up all 250' your 14/3 on just the smokes. You still have your 3-ways and ceiling fans to do. And if you're using 20a circuits for lighting (seems silly to me, but hey, it's your job not mine), you'll need 12/3 as well.

FWIW, anyone who wires houses on the 2008 should have a basic megger by default.
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Last edited by 480sparky; 03-12-2010 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:40 PM   #6
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I generally figure 13' of Romex per box. You are indeed short.
thats amazing i thought i had too much. here are pictures i drew up of the job i figured out how many receptacles to put based on the footage. please bear with my some of the plans i drew have some of my own symbols, and such so just take it for what its worth, thanks.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g4...tFloorPlan.png

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g4...dFloorPlan.png

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g4...rPowerPlan.png

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g4...rPowerPlan.png
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Bold blue circuits should be AFCI too.
even if its unfinished?

if it being unfinished doesnt matter then as far as the first floor lighting goes i'll agree i missed that and even for the benchtop outlets, but the other 2 first floor outlets have the outside gfi's on them, is that an exception or are you saying i should run a new circuit for the outside GFI's in which case the guy who put in the Sub panel in the garage and the temps only put a 20 space and i did not see the lines on the panel door for the capability of tandem breakers.


Quote:
You could easily use up all 250' your 14/3 on just the smokes. You still have your 3-ways and ceiling fans to do. And if you're using 20a circuits for lighting (seems silly to me, but hey, it's your job not mine), you'll need 12/3 as well.
the reason i have a 20a circuit on the downstairs lighting is the fact that i have 10 recess lights 2 8' fluorescent lights for the benchtops and the two outside lights.
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:57 PM   #8
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Do you have a contractor's license?
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:01 PM   #9
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even if its unfinished?......
You have that many circuits in the unfinished space?

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........the reason i have a 20a circuit on the downstairs lighting is the fact that i have 10 recess lights 2 8' fluorescent lights for the benchtops and the two outside lights.
No chance of dimmers on the cans?
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:07 PM   #10
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For receptacles and switches I figure .25 labor units
Recessed cans .20 Labor units
Home runs .33 Labor units
Fixture boxes .60 labor units

This is for open construction, adjust up or down as you see fit.
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:10 PM   #11
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You have that many circuits in the unfinished space?



No chance of dimmers on the cans?

only the downstairs is going to be unfinished but for heat efficiency purposes the ceiling of the first floor will be insulated and boarded.

im sure dimmers would work but im not sure he would want them.
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:11 PM   #12
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Do you have a contractor's license?
no i only have my electrical license
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:15 PM   #13
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You have that many circuits in the unfinished space?



No chance of dimmers on the cans?
so does the fact that the gfi's are on the receptacle circuits make a difference? aswell do you think i could cut down the amount of circuits in my first floor receptacles?
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:20 PM   #14
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This is a real good job to make a few mistakes without it costing you a lot. I'd only install 20 amp circuits where NEC required. Once you get in there, start selling Low Voltage too.
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:22 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ElectroMotive View Post
For receptacles and switches I figure .25 labor units
Recessed cans .20 Labor units
Home runs .33 Labor units
Fixture boxes .60 labor units

This is for open construction, adjust up or down as you see fit.
What's your labor unit? $200?


Isn't Turbobid great for resi?

Last edited by miller_elex; 03-12-2010 at 04:22 PM. Reason: Turbobid?
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:24 PM   #16
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Electro Motive
can you explain the labor units right off the bat i have no idea what to do with those numbers.
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGC622 View Post
Alright i have a side job in Mass and this is my first major side job. Well its an addition with a Garage on the first floor with an in law apartment on the second floor and a storage attic. It is connected to the existing house but has no interior doors between them. i have went to 3 different supply companies, one saying 1430, then 1560, and last 1900 for stock and im almost one hundred percent certain i have included all the materials. so im going to be doing this addition with another friend. i am having a hard time finding a price or a way to price my labor. does anyone have any insight? i would say my friend and i work at an average pace. so i will include my stock list in this thread to give you an idea. to briefly explain the garage downstairs will have unfinished walls and will not have a typical garage door it will be framed to look like one with a real door built into the garage look alike door. and it will have a work bench which call for some quads, then upstairs like i said is just an in law apartment with a back deck. so here is my stock list please let me know how you would price the labor or any insight on it, thanks! Also i guess he got a quote and it was too high so i would like to price it going a little easy on the guy so i can get the job.

Boxes
48 - single nail-ons
10 2 gang nail-ons
4 round nail-ons
2 Fan rated boxes w/ brackets
4 round weatherproof boxes (white)
2 single weatherproof boxes (white)


Devices
40 15a tamper-proof duplex receptacles (white)
12 15a single pole switches (white)
2 20a single Pole switches. (white)
8 15a Three-way switches (white)
1- 20a single tamper-proof Receptacle (white)
5 - 20a tamper-proof GFCI Receptacles (white)
1 240v/30a Flush Dryer Plug
1 240v/50a Range Plug surface mount


Covers
10 single switch plates (white)
3 2 gang switch plates (white)
40 single receptacles covers (white)
4 quad receptacles covers (white)
2 single bubble covers


Fixtures
1 5 recess fixture with trim and bulbs (ic rated)
10 6 recess fixture with trim and bulbs (ic rated)
2 8' Fluorescent strip lights w/bulbs


Breakers
3 15a AFCI Murray breakers(Bedroom,Fire Alarm, Living Room)

1 20a AFCI Murray breakers(Dining Room)

10 20a Murray breakers(1st floor lighting, 2 first floor receptacle cir, 2 benchtop outlets, washing machine, Refrigerator,2 small appliance branch cir, Bathroom)

2 30a 2-pole Murray breakers(Water Heater,Dryer)

1 50a 2-pole Murray breaker(stove)


Miscellaneous
1 - Bucket of 1500 Insulated Staples
12 Staples (8/3)
1 Box Yellow wire nuts
1 Box Red wire nuts
8 threaded 3/8 romex conn
40 Plastic bang-on Romex connectors (T&B's)
1 - threaded romex conn


Wire
45' 8/3
45' 10/2

45' - 10/3

250' 14/3

500' 14/2

1000' 12/2



Smokes
2 smoke/carbon detectors
2 - ionization detectors
WHy in gods name would guys that acually have licenses and have real business want to help a cheat such as your self....?
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:32 PM   #18
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WHy in gods name would guys that acually have licenses and have real business want to help a cheat such as your self....?
Not everyone is born with this knowledge.
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:34 PM   #19
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http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g4...ghtingPlan.png

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g4...ghtingPlan.png

as long as im showing you all the pictures i'll post the lighting plans aswell.

so from what i get from everyone so far is
-cut down on the circuits in the Garage.
-Put the 1st floor lights on a 15a circuit.
-washing machine goes on an AFCI
-Refrigerator goes on an AFCI
-get more 14-3

Would you say to get rid of one of the regular first floor outlet circuits or one of the benchtop outlet circuits?
Thanks guys I appreciate the help this is nerve racking being that i have only really done small service calls.
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:35 PM   #20
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Seriously......what a ******.....derrrr "Im gonna use 12 staples....and 45' of romex......der dee der de derrrr........Look ma, im a bonefied contractor now......this is easy......I get to keep allllll the money......." yaeee....I like turtles.....LOL sorry dude you asked for it.....LOL

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