CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Forum > General Electrical Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-06-2008, 09:07 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 22
Send a message via AIM to Michaeljp86
Question How do you put in a double panel service?

When you put in a electrical service with 2 panels how do you split the line from the meter to the 2 panels?

The house has a 200 amp panel in it and I need to add a 100 amp for a barn. The home owners wife doesnt want to subfeed off the panel in the house.

What I was thinking is have a 300 amp service, the 200 amp panel for the house and the 100 for the horse barn.

A lot of bigger houses here have a 400 amp service, 1 meter and split off to 2 200 amp panels. Ive never done one of these before. I heard you jump off the top of one panel to feed the other. I would think you would split off in the meter can.

Michaeljp86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Old 09-06-2008, 09:15 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,966
Default

It has been a while since I did a split service, but I used a meter socket (maybe a Murray) which could be equipped with lugs that accept two wires, one to each panel.

I still have access to one such split service, but it is an early nineties setup and the socket might not still be available.

Remember, the other panel has to have it own grounding as the separate service it is.

waco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 09:39 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 22
Send a message via AIM to Michaeljp86
Default

It seems like I remember putting in a meter box that had double lugs under the meter. The last one I did was a 300 amp 3 meter service. I also remember seeing adapters for lugs to add another wire.
Michaeljp86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 12:05 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
TheRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 485
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeljp86 View Post
I also remember seeing adapters for lugs to add another wire.
Chek out these;

http://www.polarisconnectors.com/index.html

I have used them to run parallel conductors for long underground services.
__________________
Rick -

"fool-proof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools"

Last edited by TheRick; 09-07-2008 at 12:32 AM.
TheRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 12:17 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Bkessler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CA/MI
Posts: 5,643
Default

Those polarisis are nice, just damn expensive.
__________________
When ls lunch?
Bkessler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 12:18 AM   #6
Moderator
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY State
Posts: 8,894
Default

You need to have a 320A meter pan and install double lugs on the load side.

I've never seen a residential 200A meter pan that accepted bolt on lugs.

NO, you cannot simply "jump off the top of one panel to feed the other", unless it is designed for this purpose.

Another option is a feed-through panel outside. This lets you continue the full 200A in to the house, and you can have a 100A sub-feed breaker for the barn.

What is the calculated load? Is 200A enough for both buildings?
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 04:58 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 703
Default

http://www.milbankmfg.com/products/C...es/PDF/REC.pdf

Look at page 19
Wireless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 09:17 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wireless View Post
I think Milbanks is it. Thanks. The meter socket had studs and selectable lugs.
waco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 10:27 AM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 22
Send a message via AIM to Michaeljp86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
You need to have a 320A meter pan and install double lugs on the load side.

I've never seen a residential 200A meter pan that accepted bolt on lugs.

NO, you cannot simply "jump off the top of one panel to feed the other", unless it is designed for this purpose.

Another option is a feed-through panel outside. This lets you continue the full 200A in to the house, and you can have a 100A sub-feed breaker for the barn.

What is the calculated load? Is 200A enough for both buildings?
Somone started this job 2 years ago and never finished. The HO said the electrician was going to jump off the top of the 200amp panel to a 100 amp disconnect then from that run out to the barn. This didnt seem like the right way to do it to me. This electrician was suposed to have been a electrical contrator for over 30 years.

200amp is enough for the house and the barn but the guys wife likes to add things so he doesnt know what she may want to add later and figured just do it right the first time instead of finding out later 200amp wasnt enough for his wife. He said he would be sleeping in the horse barn so even if its overkill just do it.

Some day if she wants a hot tub, pool, heat lamps all over her bathroom then the 100 amp barn may screw up her plans.

I have one of those huge catologs from MSC and they have those double lug blocks.
Michaeljp86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 11:53 AM   #10
nap
a real PITA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N. Central Indiana/ SW Michigan
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeljp86 View Post

I have one of those huge catologs from MSC and they have those double lug blocks.
Most meter bases will not accept bolt on logs. it is easier to get a meter base that is built for what you want to do.

Mind you, apparently the inspector in my county believes this is not a legal installation but the other 2 inspectors I have asked had no problem with it.

As a matter of fact, it should be legal to install a j box under the meter and tap off of that to the barn. (he had a problem with that as well)

you cannot run the feeders for one building through another building though so unless the original electrician ran the feeders through the main breaker of the house panel, it would be an illegal installation. You cannot put multiple port lugs on the line side of the panel and tap to another building.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 12:07 PM   #11
Town Drunk
 
JohnJ0906's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 3,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeljp86 View Post

200amp is enough for the house and the barn but the guys wife likes to add things so he doesnt know what she may want to add later and figured just do it right the first time instead of finding out later 200amp wasnt enough for his wife.

A customer who wants to do it right instead of cheap?!?

__________________
John from Baltimore
"One day at a Time"
All responses based on the '08 NEC
It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I'm not your solution.
JohnJ0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 12:16 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Bkessler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CA/MI
Posts: 5,643
Default

Can you not get a meter and just order double lugs, I have Murray book at my office (public storage) I think they have a standard meter that you just buy a new lug kit for. I'll check monday.
__________________
When ls lunch?
Bkessler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 12:47 PM   #13
Moderator
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY State
Posts: 8,894
Default

The 320A bases my supply guy carries only accepts bolt on lugs.
I typically use single line side (500AL) and double load side (2x 4/0AL).
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 07:44 PM   #14
Modérateur
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NE Wi / Paris France{ In France for while }
Posts: 4,836
Default

The typical 320 {400} meter socket do have lugs on load side so I can use either single feed { 400 A breaker panel } or duex feeds { 2 X 200's panels } but if used in commercal the bet is off.

Merci,Marc
__________________
Bleu est beau.
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 10:31 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
The 320A bases my supply guy carries only accepts bolt on lugs.
I typically use single line side (500AL) and double load side (2x 4/0AL).
You got it.
waco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 11:31 PM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 22
Send a message via AIM to Michaeljp86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJ0906 View Post
A customer who wants to do it right instead of cheap?!?

Didnt I mention he is rich. This is the first time this has ever happened to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post

you cannot run the feeders for one building through another building though so unless the original electrician ran the feeders through the main breaker of the house panel, it would be an illegal installation. You cannot put multiple port lugs on the line side of the panel and tap to another building.
This may be a problem, the conduit the last electrician put in goes from the basement to the barn. That would have been perfect to add the 100 amp disconnect, run across the basement to the barn. I guess I have more thinking to do.
Michaeljp86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 01:02 AM   #17
nap
a real PITA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N. Central Indiana/ SW Michigan
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeljp86 View Post


This may be a problem, the conduit the last electrician put in goes from the basement to the barn. That would have been perfect to add the 100 amp disconnect, run across the basement to the barn. I guess I have more thinking to do.
there has to be a disco that kills all the power coming into the house which would also kill the power that feeds out of the house to the barn.

You could install a 200 amp disco and feed out of that to the house and to the barn from it. The disco would become your service disco.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 01:11 AM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 22
Send a message via AIM to Michaeljp86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
there has to be a disco that kills all the power coming into the house which would also kill the power that feeds out of the house to the barn.

You could install a 200 amp disco and feed out of that to the house and to the barn from it. The disco would become your service disco.
I was thinking about the same thing today, have a 300 amp disconnect and split off that to the 200 amp panel and the 100.
Michaeljp86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 01:45 AM   #19
nap
a real PITA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N. Central Indiana/ SW Michigan
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaeljp86 View Post
I was thinking about the same thing today, have a 300 amp disconnect and split off that to the 200 amp panel and the 100.
whoops; forgot you were talking 200 to the house and 100 to the barn

yes, 300 amp disco


If you can interrupt the pipe outside the house, you could use a 320 service and use double lugs. If you have to upsize the service, I would most likely go this route.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 02:04 AM   #20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 22
Send a message via AIM to Michaeljp86
Default

Im sure the meter box will have to be replaced, Ill have to look into a 320 amp.

Michaeljp86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ARGGHHH!!! service panel splicing JJPing General Electrical Discussion 14 11-20-2008 06:13 AM
Service Entrance Panel cykoupai General Electrical Discussion 5 02-08-2008 09:26 PM
Generator - Double Delta? LightGuy48 General Electrical Discussion 3 10-22-2007 09:42 AM
Resi service panel ruff MDShunk Services and Service Equipment 24 03-08-2007 05:27 PM
10mm T&E cable double up Jubo Site Feedback and Suggestions 3 03-03-2007 02:52 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:16 PM.


Copyright © 2006-2014 Escalate Media LP. All Rights Reserved
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com