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Installations without any drywall damage?

33K views 68 replies 30 participants last post by  Greg Sparkovich 
#1 ·
I read that some guys can install recessed lights and other fixtures without cutting any access holes in the drywall. I can't see how that is totally possible.

For recessed lights I read some guys use long flex bits and use an inspection camera but what about the top plate above the switch box to run your switch leg?

i would love to do recessed lights without any cuts!
 
#2 ·
It CAN be done, but you need the proper tools and some building experience to make it work.

A couple weeks ago, I installed 8 cans lights in a finished basement with no drywall damage at all.

But there are times that cutting the drywall is required. Then you hire a good patch man.
 
#3 ·
I have done it but you have to have the right house and a lot of luck/skill.

I have fished from the switch box down into a crawl space then over to a wall bay where the recessed can would be. From the crawl I use bit extensions and drill up thru the bottom plate all the way thru to the top plate. With the can hole cut out in that bay you can almost reach in and catch the fish tape or rod pushed in from below.
 
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#4 ·
I know you can do the can lights with an inspection camera and a flex bit but i'm talking mainly about the top plates. There is no way you can get away without notching the drywall at the top plates to fish down to the box.

I can fish with the best of em I use many things fish stix, fish tape fiberglass and metal, cut pieces of metal tape, chains, rope, magnets etc...

I read someone used a flex bit and drilled up from the switch box through the plates? That just seems risky to me. Then how do you fish from a hole you can't see?
 
#9 · (Edited)
Cut in switch, or remove old new work box and prep for old work box.

Stick camera in box hole amd check for wires.

Insert flex bit and drill where there are no wires...no visible wires.

Cut in recessed lights.

Insert camera to check for wires plumbing mech.

Drill through joist with flex bit, on angle towards switch.

Insert camera.

Drill through joist, inserting camera each time.

Repeat as necessary.

Pull out flex bit.

Put lots of string on the end of fish stick and insert through holes until you are over the top plate/hole that you drilled.

Insert fish stick with hook through the top plate hole.

Grab string.

Tie wire on to string.

Profit.

Sure, it's risky. But if you're going to cut holes everywhere anyway, its not such a big deal. I've actualLy seen a plumber poke through a pipe with a jab saw while in the process of tracking down a leak, so everything has a bit of risk involved. Sometimes you will have to drill down in to the basement or crawl space, and drill from the basement up to the ceiling to get closest to the can. Sometimes it's possible to remove a fixture or exhaust fan in an adjacent room to loop the wire down/up/around. It's not always easy, but for the most part, it's usually possible especially in the northeast where we have basements and crawl spaces.

Risk/reward.
 
#7 ·
Depends on the construction. If you can drill a hole up from the switch box opening through the plate with a flex bit, shove a fish tape or rod through, and then hook it with another fish stick from the top it will work. Everything has to go perfect though. One of my fish sticks is up in someone's ceiling joist with the end broke off!!:cry::cry:
 
#8 ·
I've drilled from a switch through a top plate and then work through my 6" hole and get stick mated up. Most of the time I can do this with a sting on one and a hook on the other. I have also use a camera in an existing switch box opening (adding a switch) I managed to push my stick right through the existing hole in the top plate that already had a wire through it. Same thing reach in with stick from your light hole and grab it. If there's a kneewall in the room above it, most people don't mind cutting holes in the subfloor behind the kneewalls and get into the ceiling bays.
 
#11 ·
I've found most of the time you're adding pots its in a kitchen that had multiple surface lights, and the ceiling needs to be repaired anyways. Since most ceilings here are stipple, I always tell the homeowner that I'll be cutting an access strip across the room and they'll need it repaired before they can respray the ceiling. I'm an electrician, not a taper and I don't fix holes. It's understood here(and stated on my quote) that drywall repair is not included and is the responsibility of the homeowner.
 
#17 ·
I've had good luck doing what McClary recommended and removing existing devices and fixtures to flex bit from them. Between that and pulling off wood molding to get between stud bays or though top/bottom plates, and with a lot of luck, it can be done.

But every time I drill with a flex bit my blood pressure goes up. It's basically a gamble where the damn thing is gonna go. I bet having an inspection camera would turn it into a bit more of a science.

-John
 
#24 ·
What about aligning the location if the pots to avoid floor joists and structure that can't be cut or notched.
Stud finders.

Maybe newer houses 16" OC, but an old plaster lathe ceiling there is never any consistency.
Usually, the way the first floor is framed is copied onto the second floor. The difference might be ducts, pipes, etc.
 
#34 ·
I always tell them ahead of time there will be cuts in the drywall but i keep it a minimum. I lose some jobs because I only do a rough patch 1 coat. I tell them a proper patch really takes 3 coats but you might be able to do 2 coats. This scares them and they say "oh I don't want to go through all that".
 
#38 ·
I always tell them ahead of time there will be cuts in the drywall but i keep it a minimum. I lose some jobs because I only do a rough patch 1 coat. I tell them a proper patch really takes 3 coats but you might be able to do 2 coats. This scares them and they say "oh I don't want to go through all that".
You are sabotaging yourself.

Tell them the truth. ...that typical drywall repair is easy.

I just rough patch and have never to my knowledge lost a job because of it. A LOT of times, my rough patch can be painted over. 10 minute mud dries fast so even two coats doesn't take too long.
 
#36 · (Edited)
480sparky said:
It CAN be done, but you need the proper tools and some building experience to make it work.

A couple weeks ago, I installed 8 cans lights in a finished basement with no drywall damage at all.

But there are times that cutting the drywall is required. Then you hire a good patch man.
ditto.....only i patch my own holes...

i have three nice recessed light jobs coming up and i will post some pics...

most of the time you have to at least cut a small hole above the switch location....... but every home is different..... a good knowledge of framing helps...
 
#37 ·
I had a summer job working for andold timer EC. We did a fire alarm installation in a 1920's house with plaster and lathe wall finish. I learned a lot about fishing wire without breaking the surface. That old timer was amazing!! But hey that was 30+ years ago. Since then I learned to patch sheetrock, and this is how I roll:





It is a lot tuogher to keep the ceiling finish intact if the floor joists are against you, and there are a lot of plumbing, HVAC, and other trades in the way.

EJPHI
 
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