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Old 12-20-2016, 09:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
Located on the ceiling would not require an in use cover. Just use a standard wp cover
But if it's in use it won't be weather proof.
I've had an inspector call me out because the device was subject to wind.
All an in use cover does is reduce nuisance tripping imo.

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Old 12-20-2016, 09:25 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by zac View Post
All an in use cover does is reduce nuisance tripping imo.
Two other things:

* strain relief - just me

* avoids long and tedious conversations about whether an in use cover is required - priceless
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Last edited by splatz; 12-20-2016 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Maple_Syrup25 View Post
In Ontario you can use a flap cover and a regular device non gfi. We put them in soffit all the time for Christmas lights... maybe the new code cycle would have something to say about that , I'll have to ask an inspector.
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No need to ask an inspector. I own an Ontario code book.
-flap cover would be fine
-gfi required if lower than 2.5m above finished grade
-AFCI required

Early in the thread @AK_sparky mentioned:
"The typical rule of thumb I've been told by inspectors is to draw a 45 line down from the edge of the eave (or bottom of the header in your case); if the receptacle is above that line you don't need a bubble cover."
This is correct except all areas less than 1m above finished grade require
bubble covers.

Code references:
26-702
26-710(n)
26-724(f)
Appendix B 26-702 and figure B26-1

Suggestion: add the 2.5m GFI requirement to figure B26-1 then you'll
have it all in one place.

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Old 12-20-2016, 09:42 AM   #24
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That porch would get normal covers if I was doing it. Maybe if it was way on the outside edge it "might" get a bubble.
Our inspector says if it has a chance to get directly hit with rain it needs it.
Honestly this is one of the dumbest codes out there as now we have millions of outdoor receptacles out there with no cover at all since they break on the very first use. Good job code members.
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:14 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by splatz View Post
Two other things:

* strain relief - just me

* avoids long and tedious conversations about whether an in use cover is required - priceless
Your second point wins it.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:23 AM   #26
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I'm pretty sure I've seen scads of "holiday receptacles" installed in soffits (well out of the way of any rain) with just regular plates, not even flappers. Not saying it meets any code, just saying I've seen it. Lots.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:00 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by sbrn33 View Post
That porch would get normal covers if I was doing it. Maybe if it was way on the outside edge it "might" get a bubble.
Our inspector says if it has a chance to get directly hit with rain it needs it.
Honestly this is one of the dumbest codes out there as now we have millions of outdoor receptacles out there with no cover at all since they break on the very first use. Good job code members.
Precisely my thoughts on this. I would use a regular inside cover right after the final was done. A tamper resistant outlet would keep wind from moving thru the contacts inside the device also so put one of those in as well.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by sbrn33 View Post
That porch would get normal covers if I was doing it. Maybe if it was way on the outside edge it "might" get a bubble.
Our inspector says if it has a chance to get directly hit with rain it needs it.
Honestly this is one of the dumbest codes out there as now we have millions of outdoor receptacles out there with no cover at all since they break on the very first use. Good job code members.

The code, and inspectors, have got to get over their "if water or moisture touches the connection point between my Christmas lights and the supply the world will come to an end" irrational fear of water and electricity meeting.

I decorate with old-fashioned C9 strings, more than 75 sets of 25 120 full line volts in each and every socket, not to mention the plugs and sockets which connect one string to the next. Nothing bad ever happens despite the rain and snow easily penetrating and "washing through" all of these "deadly" connection points.

And miniature lights? You can see right through the socket if you pull the bulb out. Not watertight at all.

And GFCIs? I gave up on them long ago. Only the lights wrapping my wrought iron railings are GFCI'd, the lights out on the bushes and shrubs invariably leak more than the 5ma and I end up with 1/2 to 3/4 of the display tripping because it snowed or rained.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:15 PM   #29
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I'm pretty sure I've seen scads of "holiday receptacles" installed in soffits (well out of the way of any rain) with just regular plates, not even flappers. Not saying it meets any code, just saying I've seen it. Lots.
I don't think I have ever seen a soffit get wet?
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:22 PM   #30
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Sometimes I wash the soffits with a garden hose because the golf course is not maintained well enough and it gets a bit dry and threadbare and the wind and dirt comes looking for my walls and soffits. But I would still use a regular plate and a tr gfi outlet there. I really should just go have a talk with the course marshall.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:24 PM   #31
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I remember we did a job back in '06. Had a gfi with a regular decora cover on it by the front door. Covered porch that was 5'x12'. The mechanic I was working under said there was an exception in the code book that if the receptacle was so many feet away from the edge you didn't need an in use cover. Couldn't find it in the code book but the City of Raleigh inspector passed it. Would anyone know the code reference?
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:29 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Briancraig81 View Post
I remember we did a job back in '06. Had a gfi with a regular decora cover on it by the front door. Covered porch that was 5'x12'. The mechanic I was working under said there was an exception in the code book that if the receptacle was so many feet away from the edge you didn't need an in use cover. Couldn't find it in the code book but the City of Raleigh inspector passed it. Would anyone know the code reference?
None to be had.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:35 PM   #33
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wet location

Installations underground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.
This would mean soffit or under porch. IMO
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:30 PM   #34
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wet location

Installations underground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.
This would mean soffit or under porch. IMO
It's protected by the porch and the power of gravity which makes water fall down and not up.
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:34 PM   #35
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Intro material : So I'm slowly working on my own house's electrical (home circa 1918) there's a big front porch on the front with wrought iron railing. For resale value I'm thinking about putting receptacles near those columns so that future home owners can plug Christmas lights in (I'm not that motivated)

Actual question: I'm thinking about either using the red dot flip up receptacles on the deck or install outlets on the ceiling. If I do that though I don't want the big bubble covers. I'm thinking that because it's upside down on the ceiling and there is a foot and a half drop down header around the porch that it is damp location not wet location. I've got easy attic access to the spot.
I realize anything you do now would be grandfathered but it might be a punch list item by our friends the Home Inspectors, later on.

And I believe a deck receptacle could be used year round vs only at holidays.
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:58 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by PlugsAndLights View Post
No need to ask an inspector. I own an Ontario code book.

-flap cover would be fine

-gfi required if lower than 2.5m above finished grade

-AFCI required



Early in the thread @AK_sparky mentioned:

"The typical rule of thumb I've been told by inspectors is to draw a 45 line down from the edge of the eave (or bottom of the header in your case); if the receptacle is above that line you don't need a bubble cover."

This is correct except all areas less than 1m above finished grade require

bubble covers.



Code references:

26-702

26-710(n)

26-724(f)

Appendix B 26-702 and figure B26-1



Suggestion: add the 2.5m GFI requirement to figure B26-1 then you'll

have it all in one place.



P&L


Yea the only thing i was unsure about was the afci requirement. Which code reference did you provide for that one ? I don't have a new code book yet. I have many other things I spend money on, just need to borrow my bosses every now and then.


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Old 12-20-2016, 07:25 PM   #37
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It's protected by the porch and the power of gravity which makes water fall down and not up.
We are on the same page. Bubble covers are gay.
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:36 PM   #38
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Our inspectors say flip cover in the soffit and on the porch if there is 5' of overhang. Had one inspector tell us we had to put shower trims in our soffit cams though.
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Old 12-20-2016, 11:35 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by B-Nabs View Post
I'm pretty sure I've seen scads of "holiday receptacles" installed in soffits (well out of the way of any rain) with just regular plates, not even flappers. Not saying it meets any code, just saying I've seen it. Lots.
The CEC allowed that in 2009, not now. Would I still do it on my own
house? Sure, and I'd do it with a non-tp and without an AFCI and
make the whole thing look like it was there before I bought the place.
YMMV
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:28 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Maple_Syrup25 View Post
Yea the only thing i was unsure about was the afci requirement. Which code reference did you provide for that one ? I don't have a new code book yet. I have many other things I spend money on, just need to borrow my bosses every now and then.


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