B4T

If power saving devices worked and saved money.. the POCO companies would be offering rebates.. the same way they have programs for updating factory lighting or solar panels..

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There comes a time when people who volunteer their service need to step back and see if it is better for them to retire. A red flag is when they become "cranky" and lose all sense of reality by making decisions that really don't make any sense..

Zog

People have been victims of scams for hundereds of years, and I get that it is easy to prey on the uninformed to sell them snake oil. But what kills me is how many time electricians, who are supposed to understand basic electrical theory post about these devices.

Think for just one minute what you learned in school, draw a power triangle and consider what the utility bills you for. Then make one of 3 choices.

1. Be a snake oil salesman
2. Explain to your potential victims why this is a scam
3. Go back to school

Salvatoreg02

Zog,

If theirs a will theirs a way. Scientifically it may present some skepticism, but, their could be a possibility that these units do in fact work.
If you recall, many moons ago, we were able to get free cable and satellite TV with all the **** you want. The unit I'm talking about is enclosure about 12 x 12 x. 6 which is capable of correcting power factor. Now let me be blunt, I have not installed or physically seen a comparison of a yrs worth of utility bills from anyone who has installed this particular unit. A good friend of mine installed one at his fathers gas station about a year ago. I one day stopped by the garage and joked about the stupid little box his son had installed. His father told me the first few months he def saw substantial savings. But has not yet made a comparison of the last three yrs to honestly say this unit actually works.

So, your telling me that it's incapable of anyone to invent something that could actually work.

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Sal
P.E.S

BBQ

Not answering for zog but I am saying first and foremost you can't save a homeowner money by installing a power factor correction device when the homeowner is not paying for power factor.

Salvatoreg02

I will try to get more info on this unit so it can be researched.

Believe me I dont believe it either

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Sal
P.E.S

Big John

With due respect, you're assuming that because you're unsure of their efficacy, then everyone else must also be unsure.

At this point, I think it's pretty conclusive that these things do not work.

-John

Salvatoreg02

with all due respect as well I don't think its been concluded.
Can you present a evidence that these units can't work?
I surely can't.

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Sal
P.E.S

480sparky

They can't work on houses because homeowners are not penalized (pay extra) for poor power factor.

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In winter, why do we try to keep the house as warm as it was in summer when we complained about the heat?

Big John

Absolutely. Here you go.

-John

Salvatoreg02

I just watched a video o YouTube regarding the POWER SAVER 1200 unit, the one in question.
I agree with the technician who took the video.

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Sal
P.E.S

brian john

No How
No Way
No Savings

Now the manufacture of these devices is saving money----OFF SHORE

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Brian John
Leesburg, VA

backstay

It saves anyone who doesn't buy it money.

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When "deleted" called the Seals, they killed Bin Laden. When the Seals called "deleted", he denied them.

Zog

I already have, read the sticky on the topic.

JRaef

In my experience with anecdotes like this, here's what happens.

1) User notices an increase in electricity bill because it "suddenly" comes in significantly higher. Sometimes that happens because the utility does not really read your meter every single time, they often only read it occasionally and extrapolate your use. But if this month is the month they REALLY read it and it is significantly different from the previous month's extrapolated use, the user notices a big jump in dollars and investigates ways to save energy.

2) As part of that effort, they stumble across these magic boxes. Being ripe for hearing what they want to hear, they drink the koolaid and fall victim to the scammers.

3) At the SAME TIME, they have become much more AWARE of their energy use, and take other more realistic actions to reduce it, sometimes even unknowingly.

4) The utility bill drops, either because of the OTHER efforts to save energy, or just because the weather was different, or their use pattern was different.

5) Then because they have SPENT MONEY on the scam devices, they use the new lower energy bill as "proof" that it worked! They believe it, because they HAVE TO believe it, otherwise they have to admit to being scammed and realize they were responsible to their own energy savings all along.

It's the same psychological effect seen when widows get fleeced by gigolos but refuse to believe these guys didn't REALLY love them, or retired executives get fleeced by the likes of Bernie Madoff. To avoid the shame and embarrassment of knowing how foolishly they acted, they convince themselves that there was truth in there somewhere.

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"If you don't know where you're going, then any direction will do." -- Lewis Carroll

John

This topic never seems to go away.

I have one of these units 208/120 3 phase. How about we do a traveling "try it out, post how it works, general impression on components, comments on theory of how it works and anything else you an think of"?
You pay for the shipping and you have it and when you are done with it, pass it on to someone else.

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Doubt All Before Believing Anything.......

brian john

Even if home owners we charged for low power factor these devices would not be the answer.

Power Factor units are either sized for the specific motor or single units are installed at the main service or at selected MCC's. They measure power factor and adjust the caps as need for the pf at that time.

A one size fits all approach would not be all that benificial.

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Brian John
Leesburg, VA

TooFarFromFenway

Here's your train wreck.

Welcome.

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Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field? ~Jim Bouton, 1988

Big John

You watched that video and saw that with the "power saver" connected, the billable power consumption increased, and yet you still believe that these things will save money?

Then there's nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise.

-John

Salvatoreg02

I watched the video afterwards. LMCO

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Sal
P.E.S

mdny

The only way a power save unit works is if you measure the phase's with a KVAR meter and check PF%. If the PF is below 75% you will see a difference in your utility bill. Once installed amp probe the phase's each with the unit on and the unit off. I notice a 10-15 amp reduction on my amp probe and an increase in PF% to 95%. I also balance the loads out to the best of my ability. So yes I seen the utility usage decrease and yes you're all correct about it not working. Only if you have PF% above 80%. If you're attempting to make money on this product follow these steps above and you will see the difference in your meter immediately. You can show the owner on the second and third utility bill the decrease in kilowatts. Remember if you're going from a high season to a low season of power consumption the only way to make sure your unit is working in your favor is through your KVAR meter. Hope this helps. Sorry for all you non believers. It's all good!