residential service changes - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

liverstos · 07-06-2008, 07:27 PM

Hello everyone,
I have talked to several electricians that I worked with who had done residential service changes. They gave differing accounts of the amount of "changes" that they sold to the customer. For those who do this on a regular basis, what elements of the customers service do you change? I always thought it would involve changing every part of the electrical service that needed to be changed to accomodate for an increased load.

**480sparky** · 07-06-2008, 08:38 PM

In just about every service change I've done, the entire service gets upgraded. Usually a 60- or 100-amp to 200-amp.

Some AHJs may require other things in the house to be upgraded as well. The 2 kitchen circuits, 1 bath, and other stuff may be required. But it's a local code, not an NEC mandate.

waco · 07-06-2008, 09:11 PM

My upgrades install all new service equipment and bring the grounding up to code, but doesn't extend beyond the service and associated hardware involved in the service and service drop.

In the course of an upgrade, I might suggest other changes to the homeowner or just do them if they are directly involved in the service upgrade work. For example, if knob and tube conductors are pulled into the existing panel or fusebox, I terminate them at a junction box and proceed to the new service with NMC.

I used to sell a lot of 200 amp upgrades, but the material costs have become significant enough to matter, so I don't anymore. Most are 100 amp now.

**480sparky** · 07-06-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waco

....I used to sell a lot of 200 amp upgrades, but the material costs have become significant enough to matter, so I don't anymore. Most are 100 amp now.

Last time I ran the numbers, a 200a cost only about $120 more than a 100a. (Overhead service)

waco · 07-06-2008, 09:29 PM

that's about right, but there are other factors and if the residence can simply not use 200 amp service, I feel sort of strange going for the added costs. Used to be, the costs were nearly the same, but as everything gets more expensive, I guess I feel it matters more. I'm not making anything on higher materials costs, but I am working harder to handle 4/0 service and #4 ground wire.

One thing that helped was when I could get 32 space, 100 amp panels. An advantage of going to 200 amps was the available spaces, but that is no longer a factor.

**480sparky** · 07-06-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waco

that's about right, but there are other factors and if the residence can simply not use 200 amp service, I feel sort of strange going for the added costs. Used to be, the costs were nearly the same, but as everything gets more expensive, I guess I feel it matters more. I'm not making anything on higher materials costs, but I am working harder to handle 4/0 service and #4 ground wire.

One thing that helped was when I could get 32 space, 100 amp panels. An advantage of going to 200 amps was the available spaces, but that is no longer a factor.

You can use 2/0 for a resi service, and the ground wire (I'm assuming GEC) is the same size. Ground rods, JJR clamps, bugnuts, 2" rigid riser, hub are all the same. Only differences are the meter socket, 2" between the meter and the panel and 2/0 instead of 2. And the panel is not much more either. Breakers will be the same. Labor to install is 95% the same, only a bit more to install the 2" and #2/0 instead of 1" and #2.

I agree, some houses don't need 200amps. But those that are marginal can be sold playing the 'who knows about the future' card.

worn kleins · 07-07-2008, 12:37 PM

I use 200 amp service equipment. About the same price around here if not cheaper and easier to get. Everyone stocks 200 amp stuff. I am waiting now and it will be another week to get 150 amp load centers. The 200 stuff would not fit in the availabe space so I had to go with some special GE panels that would fit. Non stock stuff and it is taking forever to get here and it is costing twice what the 200 amp panels cost.

waco · 07-07-2008, 05:03 PM

One thing I don't do is 150 amp services. Here, we have to use 4/0 from the PUCo to the panel for 200 amp. That's to the clevis on overheads or up the pole on laterals. Of course, we use #4 for the primary GEC and #6 for the secondary.

The mast has to be changed to 2 and a half inch rigid (if there is one) for any service work. 200 amp socket for 200 amp and 125 amp socket for 100 amp.

Idaho Abe · 07-07-2008, 06:07 PM

Here in Idaho the service changes only require that the grounding be updated to current code. Check with local inspector to see what they want. Also here 200 amp is cheaper than 150 amp. My AHJ also requires that grounding be updated when only the panel is changed and not the meter base.