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Old 12-10-2008, 05:51 AM   #1
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Default Short radius benders

Anyone ever have to fire someone for real good reasons and then later on a you decide you want to fire the individual now instead of yesterday?

What I mean is we had a guy who could and would not listen one bit to what he was told! He liked to use his short radius bender all the time I told him several times not to use it unless you absolutely needed to several times he continued to use it over and over again, this only one of the reasons he was let go.

Yesterday I was pulling wire at one one the houses he piped and I tell ya it was very hard to pull the wire even at short distances because he decided to use his short radius bender everywhere.

If he was still working for us yesterday I would have fired him yesterday instead of last week , it's probably better though that we let him go last week instead of yesterday because I would of flipped on him yesterday.

#1 lesson
Do not use your short radius bender unless you absolutely have to.

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Old 12-10-2008, 08:40 AM   #2
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Did you fire him just for that? Hopefully, you documented all his below-company-policy work prior to this. Otherwise, he'd have a good case against you.

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Old 12-10-2008, 09:05 AM   #3
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Fire him? Seems to me, having him pull a job he made the bends on would have been more beneficial to you both. I mean, at least he was doing something!
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:28 AM   #4
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He may have been doing something BUT from the original post, he would no do what he is told, to me if a guy is told something and he does not follow what he is told then you have every right to fire him.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
Did you fire him just for that? Hopefully, you documented all his below-company-policy work prior to this. Otherwise, he'd have a good case against you.
Case for what? As long as your not discriminating you can fire any one for any reason.
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:13 PM   #6
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so, doing what you are told is the best criteria? Not in my world. Doing what is needed and doing it right is far more valuable in all lines of work. Helping people understand why "what is right" is right is far more productive than a knee-jerk dismissal.

But then, I also am the son of a soldier, but I joined the Marines. That's a whole different story.
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:44 PM   #7
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" Doing what is needed and doing it right is far more valuable in all lines of work."

If we are talking code wise I would agree with you Waco, but this was not about code this was about the boss wanting something done a certain way.So I stand by my statement
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Old 12-10-2008, 01:58 PM   #8
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Case for what? As long as your not discriminating you can fire any one for any reason.
Are the short-radius benders acceptable for use? If so, then he cannot be fired for using them.

If it's against company policy (which must be a written policy, not just 'told to' him), then his actions must be documented.

Try going to court with nothing more than "Well, Your Honor, I personally don't believe in using this type of tool, but Fred did once, so I fired him."

If nothing else, he'll get unemployment benefits. If the OP had a written policy about the benders, and documented the employees continual use of them, then he has a case.
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:10 PM   #9
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Is IL a right to work state? If it is they you need no reason to fire anyone at any time.
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:14 PM   #10
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Is IL a right to work state? If it is they you need no reason to fire anyone at any time.
Right to work laws mean you don't need to join a union to work. I think you mean at-will employment.

FWIW, Illinois is not.
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:20 PM   #11
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Right to work laws mean you don't need to join a union to work. I think you mean at-will employment.

FWIW, Illinois is not.
Ya thats what I meant.
I have only loosely heard of both those tearms, and I didnt know right to work laws just meant you didnt need to join a union. So some states you must join a union to work?


But back onto topic, in that case I am curious what the other reasons were.
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Old 12-10-2008, 07:53 PM   #12
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Yesterday I was pulling wire at one one the houses he piped and I tell ya it was very hard to pull the wire even at short distances because he decided to use his short radius bender everywhere.

#1 lesson
Do not use your short radius bender unless you absolutely have to.
How were you able to pass inspection with all those short radius field bends?
Just wondering, because those bends are generally quite noticeable and should be relatively easy for an inspector to spot.
I probably have the same Klein short radius bender, but it is really only to be used as a last resort when space is tight and no other option exists, so rarely gets any use.
It makes a 3 radius bend for 1/2 EMT and a 4 radius bend for 3/4 EMT, so are not NEC compliant bends since Table 2, Chapter 9 calls for a 4 minimum radius bend for 1/2 and 4-1/2 radius bend for 3/4 EMT, like the standard benders make.
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Old 12-10-2008, 08:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff000 View Post
Ya thats what I meant.
I have only loosely heard of both those tearms, and I didnt know right to work laws just meant you didnt need to join a union. So some states you must join a union to work?


But back onto topic, in that case I am curious what the other reasons were.
since this seems to be more of a rant thread, I don't feel too bad hijacking it for your education Jeff.

here is a link that shows the right to work states and the states that are not right to work states:Right to Work States | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

In 56% of the states, you can be required to join a union to work at a specific company. In the other 44%, you cannot.

employment at will is a doctrine which simply means, you can quit or your employer can release you at anytime, for any or no reason, as long as it is not a legally protected reason (race, religion, marital status, and others)
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Old 12-10-2008, 09:00 PM   #14
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"I probably have the same Klein short radius bender, but it is really only to be used as a last resort when space is tight and no other option exists, so rarely gets any use."

Given Table 2, Chapter 9, how is it that your short radius bender gets any use? I gotta say, I've never had an inspector even indicate there was such a thing as Table 2, Chapter 9, but this state doesn't require conduit.

Of course, I disagree with BDB. The best employees learn as they go and good bosses help them learn.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:35 PM   #15
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"The best employees learn as they go and good bosses help them learn."

This is true, but when you tell him more then once and he does not listen it is time to figure from an employers point that it is going to cost you money to try and teach someone that will not listen. So Waco, we can agree to disagree on this one
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:39 AM   #16
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Default short radius benders EXPOSED WORK ONLY

The short radius bender was made or designed for plant or factory machine work it was not made for residential work or commercial work meaning ,only exposed machine work around equipment and not to put 4 bends in a run , theres nothing in the code about short radius benders its plane common sense . You use it on[ exposed work ]and no more than two bends, if you dont listen at work and you lose your job TUFF luck thats your problem . But how did the electrical inspector pass it or if not how did you let it go on dont you inspect your guys work before they hang drywall. best to ya you get what you inspect .
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:41 AM   #17
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Wow you guys really took that to a level I didn't expect!

As far as the short radius bender is concerned, It is a known fact in our company that we do not use them unless they are absolutely needed every electrician we have with us knows that and will be confronted on excessive use. Not only can you fail inspections it is also very hard to pull wires threw theses pipes.

As far as the notion this was the only reason he was fired absolutely not, he had many other issues that is not tolerated in the company I work for now and any other company I have worked for in the past.

Some other reasons:
1. insubordination
2. not showing up
3. leaving job early before everyones released
4. not finishing the projects complete and telling us there done.
5. making personal calls all day
6. always out smoking
7. caught smoking pot on jobsite
8. fighting with other workers
9. The GC said he didn't want him on any of there jobs
10. Not listening to his superiors

These are some other reasons for his dismissal so if still has a case against us let him bring it on!

I dont know man,I've been fired for several reasons for many reasons even less petty then these offenses. Your trying to tell me that I could sue these companies for not having proper warnings and such, or I could just take it as a lesson learned and seek other employment and correct the reason why I lost that last job.

Why are we even talking about court cases and sh@t I think it's rediculous that someone would even talk about sueing anybody just get over it dude.

(Although I could see if you you had 30+ years invested in a company and had retirement and benefits and you were suddenly let go without warning That could be my reason to stand and take action to get what is mine. i might get something. but common were talking about something totally different this is the trades and I have seen several guys come and go threw the company doors if you slack off your going to get fired, usually without warning, and if you didnt see it coming then you really are a fool.)
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:45 AM   #18
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Looks to me like you have a whole litany of causes other than short radius bends. Makes me wonder why he was still there at all.

Funny thing, I'm pretty old and pretty experienced in managing people and projects, but after I retired and went back into electrical, I was appalled at some of the workers and most of the bosses, but I guess that's a different issue.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:01 AM   #19
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"I was appalled at some of the workers and most of the bosses, but I guess that's a different issue."

Waco, we finally found something we can agree on
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:04 AM   #20
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I've been looking for years for a short radius bender, preferably the one that does 1/2 and 3/4 on the same shoe. Where do ya get them?

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