Mike Guile

Just looking for some opinions on the fastest way to run strips in straight lines on drywall the fastest and most efficient?

Typically, I get center at both ends, run a guide wire, mount strip with toggles along guide wires. Doesn't seem very fast though. I"m sure there is another fastening device quick and easy that would speed things up. Seems like we have done 2-5 4ft strips per hour in past depending on things. Really have never been in a hurry til this flat rate pricing thing started. I gave a flat rate of $600 Labor to install 24x4ft fixtures in two lines. I took a wild guess and really don't know how long it will take. 7.5 ft ceilings in a 2 hallways. Wiring at one end is already there as night light but we do have to run a 3 wire to make some fixtures switchable per custom request (adding pull chain switch at end of row).

Anyone know what the flat rate per linear foot is on a job like this?

480sparky

Are you looking for pricing help or installing help?

Since I don't do flat-rate, I can't help you there.

As for installing, get a rotary laser.

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Mike Guile

I guess both. We used the rotary laser twice. Problem is every place we have done these in has crooked walls. Seemed the best was just 2 nails at both ends and measure off wall then run string.

I was looking for the fastest way to mount these thing as well. Seems like there a 100's of fastening items out there now. I'm just used to toggles, but I'm not opposed to something quicker.

I'm getting on the flat rate bandwagon I guess for things like this. Don't have a book or anything just curious what the book says for this.

jw0445

Can't help you flat rate but if I were doing it I would run a string from one end to the other. Now you have your run. I've used a laser but lining it up in a hallway is a pain. I'd then use drywall screws and start hanging lights. You'll need to find the rafters but once you find two you'll find them all. The string will have to be cut at each light from my experience. Then go back and wire everything up.

JayH

In our area toggles are not an acceptable means of (sole) support.

The string and drywall screw method is the most efficient and code compliant we have established.

We prefab the fixture on the ground with a 7/8" hole at the mounting points. Then use a fender washer and drywall screw into the the framing. Mount the string off center of the fixture to run on an outside edge, then push the edge of the fixture to the string for alignment.

A fixture lift enables a single man to conduct the whole operation.

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480sparky

If you're running perpendicular to the joists, I'd run some screws into them instead of using toggles.

If you're running parallel to the joist, and have to use toggles, use one piece of the cardboard box they come in and make a template to mark your holes with. Cut some small holes in it that line up with the holes in the light, and use the cardboard to mark the ceiling.

Then take an 12-18" scrap piece of 1/2" EMT and cut one end at a 45° angle. Place the angled cut on the ceiling and strike it with a hammer........ nice, neat and quick hole for the toggle.

And it's cheap. And it's easily replaceable.

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jw0445

480, never tried the emt trick. That won't blow out the back of the drywall? Joe

480sparky

Not if you strike it fast and hard. Try to tap it in and you will, though.

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jw0445

Thanks,

InPhase277

Pop a chalk line and use Zip-Its.

Mike Guile

That was actually our plan.

String it, hold fixture up, make 3 marks in holes, drop fixture, put 3 zip its in, mount. It's funny because I just decided on that plan 1 hr ago and got all my zip its ready.

leland

I would not trust the Zips'. Toggles.

4' fixtures: string the outside edge with a few screws in the middle of the run.
Emt between fixtures? if so pre cut the pieces,mark the ceiling for the mounts.1 guy runs ahead,marks and drills,the other mounts the fixture.
1st guy goes to the start and begins wiring.

Whats with the pull chain thingy? just wire accordingly.

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Mike_586

Smart choice

On a wall I often use Zips (we call them E-Z Anchors since that's the dominant brand up here). I'd never use Zips on a ceiling namely because none of those types of anchors has a tensile rating. They are only rated for shear strength and should anything ever happen, you're opening yourself up to all sorts of liability issues using materials outside their intended purpose.

There are tons of anchors like toggle bolts, toggle locks, etc. that have tensile ratings and are designed for use on ceilings, and of course to cover your bases you can try and get screws into studs where possible.

mcclary's electrical

You are correct,I agree. However some are rated for both

http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepa...rstrengths.htm

leland

Imagine: 6 -1/4" toggles in a 3" space!

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jrannis

I usually mark a piece of EMT with my center line mark from the nearest wall and connect them end to end with the end piece.
Sometimes I make them up as I go or have someone come behind me to do it.
Chalk line would be good too.

I would use toggle bolts

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Mike Guile

Jay. You aren't allowed to use toggles?? who says? they are pretty standard around here for fixtures under 5 lbs.

The pull chain is the owners idea. He asked me how much to put on switch and I said $150. He said how much to modify in a pull chain. I said $40. So guess what he picked?

I think I'm going zip its and try to get 1 good drywall screw in per fixture. I like to hear all the ways though other people do things.

220/221

I won't hang a strip without securing it to framing.

Back in my apprentice days, I wired a house for a retired union electrician. The guy was probably around 70, I was in my 20's.

When he saw me installing the 4' strips with toggles he instructed me to use sheet metal screws and anchor them to the framing. He explained that if there were a water leak that soaked the drywall, the fixture would fall.

It made sense to me so I stopped my tract house practice of using only toggle bolts. A couple years later on a restaurant installation, the plumbers left a hole in the flat roof and barrels of rain poured in to the kitchen. My 8' strips saved the day by holding up the drywall ceiling.


DW guy and GC took me to lunch. Plumber paid.
I'd use a studfinder to layout the framing, drill/scratch awl some holes in the fixtures, run a chalk line amnd screw em up.

Mike_586

Well that's good to know, I never noticed any tensile ratings on the brands I'm familiar with and since I don't much trust them in that capacity I never bothered digging too deeply

Still about the biggest thing I'll use those for is 1" EMT or a 6"x6" box and that's pushing it.

I first saw what the difference between a solid installation and a weak one is like back in 02. One was sometime in February, a sprinkler pipe froze during a prolonged cold snap over the weekend in a kitchen in a retirement building. Those lights were toggled through mesh in a lath and plaster ceiling and held fairly well.

The other was a Red Lobster (don't know if that seafood chain is in the US) later that spring when the temperatures rose too fast and the combination of everything melting and a week of heavy rains plus a little damage to the roof membrane by some mechanical guys.

The Red Lobster was downright scary. 347V lights, hunks of drywall coming down, lights dropping with only the BX holding them up and water dripping everywhere while I was trying to evacuate the area of workers. Once they were out I figured out a safe path to the lighting controls and the electrical room to shut down power. My first priority was to get people to safety. That was the first time I had to lock off power and tell a guy he was out of business until things were fixed.

I don't know what made me more nervous. All that water and electricity, trying to get all those people out, or having to tell the manager he was out of business till it was fixed.

When I got into the union I did a lot of insurance work, mostly fire and flood damage. I can easily understand the reasoning behind those rules having seen the aftermath and having people who were there describe it in a dozen places.

I'm not going to bother getting into the codes because what applies here won't down there and code references would be worthless, but the general gist of the rules are that there have to be attachments directly to the building structure and that the reasoning behind the rules have to do with earthquakes and fire. Things have to hold together long enough for people to get the hell out of the building safely.

InPhase277

I'm sorry, but as long as you don't strip the Zip It while installing it, it ain't coming down, especially with two or three per fixture. I've installed a ton of stuff with Zip Its, both ceiling and wall, and none have come down.