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11-06-2009, 07:31 PM
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#1
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That Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,463
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Testing Shunt trip breakers
Why you no reset Shunt trip breaker? 
Anyone ever tested a Shunt system and had a breaker not reset afterwords?
Just wondering because this was an existing system in good shape that was tested today and all the sudden one of the breakers went to sh*t after testing.
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11-06-2009, 07:33 PM
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#2
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Chief Electron Relocator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cornpatch USA
Posts: 31,308
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Did it open because the control system activated the shunt mechanism, or did the circuit powered by the breaker experience an overload/short?
__________________
In winter, why do we try to keep the house as warm as it was in summer when we complained about the heat?
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11-06-2009, 07:36 PM
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#3
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That Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,463
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Control system activated, just testing it. No short.
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11-06-2009, 07:40 PM
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#4
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Chief Electron Relocator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cornpatch USA
Posts: 31,308
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Maybe the coil voltage is still being applied?
__________________
In winter, why do we try to keep the house as warm as it was in summer when we complained about the heat?
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11-06-2009, 07:42 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 102
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Is the switch that is used for the S/T control a momentary or maintained contact? Is it possible that it is one of those big mushroom switches that need to be pulled back out?
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11-06-2009, 07:56 PM
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#6
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That Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,463
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This was an Ansul system in a kitchen, another EC I was helping today tested it from the Kitchen location and all the shunts tripped but one will not reset. I am not very familiar with the system, I am just trying to help him troubleshoot prior to purchasing a new breaker.
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11-06-2009, 07:58 PM
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#7
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animal lover /rat bastard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: central east coast us
Posts: 7,051
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what's the brand/model# ?
__________________
As President Roosevelt said: "We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And Chuck Norris. And 滿口胡言. And Grabthar's hammer. And Gort. and 江南 Style. and rotting in the street and Zombies . . . and Wayne Griffen "
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11-06-2009, 08:00 PM
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#8
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Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 947
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maybe bad contacts or faulty relay
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11-06-2009, 08:07 PM
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#9
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Licensed Journeyman
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: third world/New Orleans to Mobile
Posts: 5,118
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maybe bad shunt trip breaker
__________________
“Dammit, Smithers, this isn’t rocket science, it’s brain surgery!”
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11-07-2009, 08:57 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 102
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Remove the S/T control wiring from the breaker in question and try to reset the breaker. In addition, test for voltage on the S/T control wiring that you removed from the breaker.
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11-07-2009, 09:50 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 4,351
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Amazing, all sorts of bad advice on how to "test" a breaker when we don't even know what type of breaker this is. There is no such thing as a "shunt trip breaker", a shunt trip is an accessory.
Please, don't do anything stupid like bypass protective functions and reset this breaker, that type of miove will get you killed and/or do some serious damage to equipment.
Post the breaker type and cat# and any other nameplate info so we can give you some real advice.
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11-07-2009, 09:56 AM
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#12
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Master Plumber
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: In your attic.
Posts: 8,107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zog
Amazing, all sorts of bad advice on how to "test" a breaker when we don't even know what type of breaker this is. There is no such thing as a "shunt trip breaker", a shunt trip is an accessory.
Please, don't do anything stupid like bypass protective functions and reset this breaker, that type of miove will get you killed and/or do some serious damage to equipment.
Post the breaker type and cat# and any other nameplate info so we can give you some real advice.
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What, Really? There is no such thing as a shunt trip breaker? What the heck are these other guys talking about with breakers that have an additional wire coming off of them, labeled as shunt trip breakers?
~Matt
__________________
Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
Advertising space available. Inquire within. 
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11-07-2009, 09:58 AM
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#13
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Master Plumber
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: In your attic.
Posts: 8,107
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By the way, That was an honest question. All the breakers I have seen that are labeled as shunt trip, sure do not look like it is an accessory, they look to be part of the breaker itself.
~Matt
__________________
Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
Advertising space available. Inquire within.
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11-07-2009, 10:34 AM
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#14
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Pure Evil
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Presque Isle, Maine
Posts: 5,217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zog
Amazing, all sorts of bad advice on how to "test" a breaker when we don't even know what type of breaker this is. There is no such thing as a "shunt trip breaker", a shunt trip is an accessory.
Please, don't do anything stupid like bypass protective functions and reset this breaker, that type of miove will get you killed and/or do some serious damage to equipment.
Post the breaker type and cat# and any other nameplate info so we can give you some real advice.
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Sorry Zog, but they are selling a lot of imaginary breakers, here are a few examples.
http://www.grainger.com/1/3/shunt-trip-circuit-breaker
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11-07-2009, 10:46 AM
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#15
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animal lover /rat bastard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: central east coast us
Posts: 7,051
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if you take the cover off the breaker you will find that the shunt trip is generally an optional part. shunt trip breakers are often ordered with the feature already installed, so it may not be obvious to you if you have never taken one of those breakers apart. I am no expert tho - there may very well be breakers what have them built in, but I have no knowledge of that.
__________________
As President Roosevelt said: "We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And Chuck Norris. And 滿口胡言. And Grabthar's hammer. And Gort. and 江南 Style. and rotting in the street and Zombies . . . and Wayne Griffen "
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11-07-2009, 10:50 AM
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#16
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That Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,463
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Its an Ansul system in a kitchen that controls a few 1 pole SQ D breakers with shunts attached to them. We did not get a chance to even start troubleshooting it, just looking for advice on some common points to check in the system before I assume it is the shunted breaker.
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11-07-2009, 12:19 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 4,351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOOL_5150
By the way, That was an honest question. All the breakers I have seen that are labeled as shunt trip, sure do not look like it is an accessory, they look to be part of the breaker itself.
~Matt
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And it was an honest answer, a shunt trip is an accesory added to a breaker. It would be like calling your car an air conditioned car. It's not a type of car but just a feature. Symantics I suppose.
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11-07-2009, 12:54 PM
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#18
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Bilge Rat
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 2,384
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I've always called them 'shunt-trip breakers' too. Though this term is not exactly technically correct, everyone knows what I'm referring to.
Interesting though, I usually call a breaker with an undervoltage trip coil a ' breaker with undervoltage trip'.
Since the breakers in question are 120 volt branch circuit breakers, the easiest way to test them would be to remove the panel cover, disconnect (and isolate) one of the trip coil wires, disconnect the load wire, and try to re-set the breaker. This is about as safe as you're going to get without removing it from the panel, which I consider completely unnecessary.
Wait a sec here!!! Since removing the panel cover could be considered hot work, you'll need to shut down the entire national power grid in order to be in complete compliance with all safety regulations. No hot work! ever! Rules are rules!
Seriously, lets be at least somewhat reasonable with safety here.
Rob
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11-08-2009, 08:50 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 102
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Like micromind and I said if you remove the S/T control lead from the breaker and it resets then there is a problem with the control. If it does not reset then it is the breaker itself.
Zog is part correct some of the larger breakers have the S/T as an accessory that can be field replaced and/or installed. I have never seen a small breaker like a SqD QOB that was not a factory made S/T.
Without looking at the problem I would suspect a bad breaker or control relay. Since you stated that all breakers tripped on that Ansul system and all but that one would reset. Most of the Ansul systems that I worked on have 120 control power to the dry contact switch at the Ansul bottle. From the Ansul bottle switch to a hoffman box with relays to control all the safety devices connected to the system, S/T breakers, gas valves, exhaust fans etc.
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11-08-2009, 11:27 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,393
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Ya think?
Perhaps shunt tripped would be more appropriate but....shut up. 
The term shunt trip breaker is commonly used therefore there is such a thing.
Quote:
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Post the breaker type and cat# and any other nameplate info so we can give you some real advice
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I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most shunt trip breakers that we are talking about here are all the same.
I am just guessing here from what I've seen but, voltage (120 in the ones I've installed) goes thru a coil in the shunt portion tripping a spring loaded lever which turns the breaker off via the tie bar.
Anyway....all I can suggest is the obvious. Remove the shunt wire and try to reset. Maybe take the tie bar off and try to rest it??
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