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Old 04-18-2009, 05:16 PM   #1
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Default Torque on bolts lugs & terminations

Well on each project we must torque every breaker termination be it a set screw 100 amp or smaller breaker or on a larger breaker lets say up to a 1000 amp lug type hex or allen type lugs .

After its torqued then the inspector is called and most just ask for a spot check of some lugs and there happy you pass . They check our test date on torque wrench and everyone is fine .


Now there is this new inspector that needs to see all lugs he needs to hear the klick on each and every lug .
were kinda talking lots and lotttttssss of lugs .



I dont have a problem doing that even if its a waste of our time !! but if you re -torque on aluminum lugs once its done and then you come back and tighten it again they sometimes strip out not all the time just one or two out of say 50 lugs this is a common problem which can cost us lots of time replacen lugs .

Just wondering what you guys do at your inspections and if you have the same problem ? Also any input on torque after a bolt or lug is torqued what about re tightening the same is this ok or is this a issue . Best to yas

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Old 04-18-2009, 05:20 PM   #2
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If the expector wants to hear the click on each and every lug, don't torque it to the specs the first time. If the lug requires, say, 250 in-pounds, torque it to 175 or 200. Then, when the expector comes along, you 'finish the job' and torque it to specs.

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Old 04-18-2009, 05:27 PM   #3
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nick, we're getting into this same thing in the next few weeks. AND we're using al wire. i dont know the solution. loosen , then re-torque???? dont know if thats a good thing. we'll see.
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:59 PM   #4
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Well 480 yes good point like that!!

We had no clue to what this inspector was trying to prove but i guess hes by the book kinda guy meaning about his job .


Paul ill send him your way next week good luck .This lug snapping or strippin out has been around for years buts it not a everyday kinda thing its just on them special times when you get a bad lug ya they do make bad lugs.

But you cant explain that to the snot nose youngster inspector he is a county official and my crew says he looks like a FBI agent or maybe secret service has a ear plug cell and a badge on his belt . take care
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:38 PM   #5
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if the torque wrench clicked the first time you tightened it, shouldn't it click right away when you go to tighten it at the same torque ? I wouldn't worry too much about the inspector, after he starts getting behind in his work he'll stop checking every lug.
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:28 PM   #6
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How do you get anything accomplished working like that?

An inspector checks torque on every lug? It seems like an inspector would have to follow me around all day long or I would have to go back to the work I'd already done, open it up and redo it for his satisfaction.

That's a waste of resources. If I can't properly operate a screwdriver/wrench, maybe I should be doing something else.

Inspecting maybe
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
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if the torque wrench clicked the first time you tightened it, shouldn't it click right away when you go to tighten it at the same torque ? I wouldn't worry too much about the inspector, after he starts getting behind in his work he'll stop checking every lug.

Well yes it should but i believe most torque applied to a lug meaning a lug with wire in it is a lot different then a bolt and nut ?
Meaning theres a lot of error in this process kinda not real accurate or precise !!

When compressing that soft cooper in a lug it does not stay tight like temperature to me can change coppers shape. But i really believe its the lug there not harden steel there just threaded by metal & aluminum once you stress them thats it i think some are not mechanically sound .

Meaning the quality control at the plant was not checked that day . Ill bet if i sent our inspector up to that plant that makes the lugs he would striaghten out the whole mess !! Well we dont usally have a inspector who test every lug we do our work like you do this is a new to us !! Best to ya

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Old 04-18-2009, 07:50 PM   #8
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good point , nick. torque on bolts/ nuts is completely different than wire, BUT the torque charts we use that are on the gear are for the hardware, NOT the wire. somehow my boss figured that 750 al should be torqed at 41 ft. lbs. ( ? ) too tight !!!! but he IS the boss. oh well.
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by paul d. View Post
good point , nick. torque on bolts/ nuts is completely different than wire, BUT the torque charts we use that are on the gear are for the hardware, NOT the wire. somehow my boss figured that 750 al should be torqed at 41 ft. lbs. ( ? ) too tight !!!! but he IS the boss. oh well.
Paul , the torque we use is found on the breaker front its shows the wire size to torque for each wire & lug size that applies to that breaker .

And most switchboards have a chart on the gear or in the books that ship with ther gear .Take care Paul ill send the inspector up to ya he will show ya !!http://www.ilsco.com/newweb/ilscohom...n?OpenDocument

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Old 04-18-2009, 08:19 PM   #10
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In my opinion, it is wrong to "test" the torque on a fastener, partly because the tolerance of torque wrenches vary and because the manufacturer (as far as I know) doesn't require re-torquing.

I think the foreman or job boss should talk to the inspector and find out where it is instructed to re-torque. One technique is to "seal" the threads with paint (we used to use nail polish!) when the fastener is torqued. An unbroken seal means that fastener hasn't been touched after it was torqued.
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
If the expector wants to hear the click on each and every lug, don't torque it to the specs the first time. If the lug requires, say, 250 in-pounds, torque it to 175 or 200. Then, when the expector comes along, you 'finish the job' and torque it to specs.

Again.. sparky has a great solution to the problem. Now if he could only fix the economy
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:22 PM   #12
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Again.. sparky has a great solution to the problem. Now if he could only fix the economy
Use said torques wrenches on the noggins of gubbermint folk, as well as the greedy top bananas of the big corporations.
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:07 AM   #13
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You wont damage by re-torguing but they move some due to cold flow. This is expected and taken into account by the ANSI torque specs, your inspector is wasting your time and has no clue what he is talking about.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:42 AM   #14
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I've never had an Inspector want to see me torque anything. This guy is wasting your time and his own. Does the Inspector have much work to do or is he just looking for a place to hang out?
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:25 PM   #15
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Is the contract T&M or fixed bid?

IF T&M: Do they want observed torque readings? If so, do observed torque readings.
IF FIXED BID: Did they specify observed torque readings? If so, do torque readings. If not, get a change order, they need to pay added labor costs that were not in the original contract.
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Is the contract T&M or fixed bid?......
Inspectors don't get involved in the bidding portion of a job.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Inspectors don't get involved in the bidding portion of a job.
Maybe I am wrong but I assumed that it was not a residential project do to the 1000 amp lugs. Very rarely will I see a municipal inspector on an industrial project. The Inspectors for the acceptance and commissioning are normal from the client.

Bye the way 480sparky, I liked your old signature better, saved me a lot of time when I did not have to think it.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Maybe I am wrong but I assumed that it was not a residential project do to the 1000 amp lugs. Very rarely will I see a municipal inspector on an industrial project. The Inspectors for the acceptance and commissioning are normal from the client.
Inspectors here do nothing of the sort. They look for Code compliance, and nothing more.

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Bye the way 480sparky, I liked your old signature better, saved me a lot of time when I did not have to think it.
Which one? I change them so often. I suffer from CRS.
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:08 PM   #19
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Inspector means one who inspects. This could be AHJ, OSHA, quality control, the Client, a home owner, the Engineering firm, trade group like the American Bakers Council....


The one about being a know nothing non union........
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Old 04-19-2009, 02:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Maybe I am wrong but I assumed that it was not a residential project do to the 1000 amp lugs. Very rarely will I see a municipal inspector on an industrial project. The Inspectors for the acceptance and commissioning are normal from the client.

Bye the way 480sparky, I liked your old signature better, saved me a lot of time when I did not have to think it.
Well we kinda only do commercial or industrial work and the only projects we dont have a electrical inspector inspect our work is when we do a power plant everything else is a city or county inspection .

But all our jobs its in contract /spec meaning we must show data & torque on paper turned into engineer .

All jobs megg readings wire & equipment turned into engineer .

All jobs breaker tests vd & current turned into engineer .

All jobs ground rod FOP tests turned into engineer.

All jobs high pot test cable turned into engineer .

The only test that has to be observed or witness by a inspector is ground rod test and a torque test most inspectors dont care its just this new wisenheimer inspector .usally they look at our work and sign it off .

Today the electrical inspectors read the spec book and go by the engineers rules of inspecting the job they review the plans and scope of each job this is in the last two or three years . what kinda projects do you do ? take care be safe


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