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Old 09-19-2011, 11:12 PM   #1
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Default When can you use romex, bx and mx in commercial buildings?

I normally always just use mc but I always see romex. I know it's just someone coming in after hours and installing it but I think there is a place you can do it.
I remember Something about it depending on how many people the building serves and how many floors?
Also is there any case you can use bx now?

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Old 09-19-2011, 11:27 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricalNut View Post
I normally always just use mc but I always see romex. I know it's just someone coming in after hours and installing it but I think there is a place you can do it.
I remember Something about it depending on how many people the building serves and how many floors?
Also is there any case you can use bx now?
Romex.

Quote:
334.12 Uses Not Permitted.
(A) Types NM, NMC, and NMS. Types NM, NMC, and
NMS cables shall not be permitted as follows:
(1) In any dwelling or structure not specifically permitted
in 334.10(1), (2), and (3)
(2) Exposed in dropped or suspended ceilings in other
than one- and two-family and multifamily dwellings
(3) As service-entrance cable
(4) In commercial garages having hazardous (classified)
locations as defined in 511.3
(5) In theaters and similar locations, except where permitted
in 518.4(B)
(6) In motion picture studios
(7) In storage battery rooms
(8) In hoistways or on elevators or escalators
(9) Embedded in poured cement, concrete, or aggregate
(10) In hazardous (classified) locations, except where specifically
permitted by other articles in this Code.
(B) Types NM and NMS. Types NM and NMS cables
shall not be used under the following conditions or in the
following locations:
(1) Where exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors
(2) Where embedded in masonry, concrete, adobe, fill, or
plaster
(3) In a shallow chase in masonry, concrete, or adobe and
covered with plaster, adobe, or similar finish
(4) In wet or damp locations
BX

Quote:
320.12 Uses Not Permitted. Type AC cable shall not be
used as follows:
(1) Where subject to physical damage
(2) In damp or wet locations
(3) In air voids of masonry block or tile walls where such
walls are exposed or subject to excessive moisture or
dampness
(4) Where exposed to corrosive conditions
(5) Embedded in plaster finish on brick or other masonry
in damp or wet locations

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Old 09-19-2011, 11:27 PM   #3
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Never above the drop ceiling. Very often legal inside the walls, depending on construction type. In exposed ceilings, depends on the construction type permitted (not the type actually constructed).
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:54 PM   #4
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I wired a apartment building/garage for my old company and the first floor all got wired in Romex and passed.

I meant when can I used bx As apposed to mc. Some jobs the engineer said to use bx for the outlets and use mc for the lights.
I just wondered If there was a reasoning behind this?
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:00 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricalNut View Post
I wired a apartment building/garage for my old company and the first floor all got wired in Romex and passed.

I meant when can I used bx As apposed to mc. Some jobs the engineer said to use bx for the outlets and use mc for the lights.
I just wondered If there was a reasoning behind this?
Florescent lights that are T-12 with the old magnetic ballast start better with the full sized ground where BX the sheath is the ground so if there were any lose connectors the ground would not be as good and the lamps may not start.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HARRY304E View Post
Florescent lights that are T-12 with the old magnetic ballast start better with the full sized ground where BX the sheath is the ground so if there were any lose connectors the ground would not be as good and the lamps may not start.
I thought BX had the bare ground wrapped in paper.

In California you can never use romex for any commercial wiring. Resi concealed only.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:55 AM   #7
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First, there is no such thing as BX. It is called armored cable (AC) and that is how you will find it in the NEC. Yes, it is commonly called 'BX' because it was originally manufactured by the Bronx (BX) cable company. MC is generally lighter in weight and contains an insulated equipment grounding conductor whereas the AC uses the exterior armor as the EGC.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:59 AM   #8
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When did NM get banned above dropped ceilings.. I have seen plenty of strip malls that have it as the only wiring method used..
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipp

I thought BX had the bare ground wrapped in paper.

In California you can never use romex for any commercial wiring. Resi concealed only.
Not true. You can use it in commercial buildings up to the third floor. Some localities may prohibit it, but "California" allows it.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:54 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by B W E View Post
Not true. You can use it in commercial buildings up to the third floor. Some localities may prohibit it, but "California" allows it.
Just don't quote moi wrong but I did recall someone mention to me that they did lift the restriction above third floor for NM cable ?

Merci,
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:47 AM   #11
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This is a question that is pretty much imposable to answer on a National level. There are so many local amendments and changes to the NEC about NM and areas on different code cycles you really need to check with the local code officials.

As far as the NEC, the 3 floor restriction was pretty much swapped for the 'not above suspended ceilings' restriction.
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:51 AM   #12
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Was there a MA amendment for that? I have to get another set of them.
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Old 09-20-2011, 08:09 AM   #13
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I'm from jersey. I know mc has the ground and is lighter just wondered if there was any reason I would have to use it. Bx or AC (ive only ever heard it called bx around me) is definitely quicker because you don't have to deal with the extra wire but it isn't safer so I always use mc.

Like what b4t said, every job I get on I see romex above the dropped celling and some of the places were just built.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:08 AM   #14
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Question Subject to Physical Damage - Definition?

Where do we find the definition for "Subject to physical damage"? That seems like such a subjective phrase it could mean just about anywhere.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by b4t View Post
when did nm get banned above dropped ceilings.. I have seen plenty of strip malls that have it as the only wiring method used..
1999
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:15 AM   #16
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Where do we find the definition for "Subject to physical damage"? That seems like such a subjective phrase it could mean just about anywhere.
There is none and it is just as subjective as you say.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:31 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by ElectricalNut View Post
I'm from jersey. I know mc has the ground and is lighter just wondered if there was any reason I would have to use it. Bx or AC (ive only ever heard it called bx around me) is definitely quicker because you don't have to deal with the extra wire but it isn't safer so I always use mc.

Like what b4t said, every job I get on I see romex above the dropped celling and some of the places were just built.
AC can be used the same way as EMT it's just the jacket is the ground. We dont see much of it here in south Florida.
I dont like it just because its heavy and I just prefer MC. I like to find the rare roll of stranded MC. I buy as much as I can when I can get it.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:36 AM   #18
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Thanks, that's about what I figured.

b4t, I learned that one the hard way. I wired a store in a strip mall and had to completely do the job over because of that change. Really pissed me off after using a wiring method for decades that never caused a problem and then all of a sudden it's not good enough. Anyway, I remember it had to do with the type classification of the building construction. So theoretically you can still use it in commercial buildings of the type in which it is approved to be used in. Again, totally subjective based upon location.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:54 AM   #19
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I'm from jersey. I know mc has the ground and is lighter just wondered if there was any reason I would have to use it. Bx or AC (ive only ever heard it called bx around me) is definitely quicker because you don't have to deal with the extra wire but it isn't safer so I always use mc.

Like what b4t said, every job I get on I see romex above the dropped celling and some of the places were just built.
How is AC less safer than MC?

You can still get AC around here, but it does cost a lot more than MC. Supply and demand.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:59 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by knowshorts View Post
How is AC less safer than MC?
Some feel the lack of copper wire grounding conductor reduces the safety.

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