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05-21-2009, 01:50 AM
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#21
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 76
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Well finally, here are the pics of the replacement. I have been working at another job while the floors were being done (and also waiting for money).
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05-21-2009, 01:56 AM
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#22
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Burger Flipper
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,729
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Cool man, looks good. I know someone is going to say it - so ill take care of it: Where are the straps/staples on your branch circuits?
~Matt
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I would rather beg for forgiveness then beg for permission.
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05-21-2009, 05:25 AM
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#23
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Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDShunk
Shoulda figured it was a California install from the earthquake strap on the water heater. They're never used around here. Plumbers probably wouldn't know where to buy them, even if a fella wanted one.
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Looks like a 28" Kindorf strap. 
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05-21-2009, 12:39 PM
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#24
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 76
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Ha, yea that got cut off right at the top of the pic. They are all stapled right above the gutter on a joist. The flex I do have to strap a few still.
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05-21-2009, 02:53 PM
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#25
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Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archania
Ha, yea that got cut off right at the top of the pic. They are all stapled right above the gutter on a joist. The flex I do have to strap a few still.
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Relax... your install is 1000% better than what existed. Stapled, strapped or not that NM isn't going anywhere...
But I have to ask, was the trough really necessary? I would have opted for a couple of well-placed 1900 boxes if the existing NMs weren't long enough, but, that's just M(not so)HO.
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05-22-2009, 02:40 AM
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#26
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 76
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I thought of some 1900's, but there would have to be a lot of them. So, I went for just one gutter to consolidate. You can see how short all the wires were by looking at where the wirenuts are in the gutter. I didn't cut anything off the existing wires. (except an inch here or there to get a better part of the wire) Also, since the panel was lower than the other one(s) by about a foot, everything existing would have to be spliced.
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05-25-2009, 08:52 PM
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#27
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12
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I like the old telco protector to the left of the gutter...I don't suppose that's still in use?
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05-25-2009, 09:48 PM
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#28
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 76
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Ha, I thought thats what it might be, but wasn't sure. I don't think it is, as someone rewired the phone lines about 10 years ago... That's what was kind of cool about this house, it was basically untouched and unmolested. Another thing I pulled off the old panel was a transformer. 120VAC to 24VAC. Have no idea what that was for...
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05-25-2009, 09:50 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: missouri
Posts: 947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archania
Ha, I thought thats what it might be, but wasn't sure. I don't think it is, as someone rewired the phone lines about 10 years ago... That's what was kind of cool about this house, it was basically untouched and unmolested. Another thing I pulled off the old panel was a transformer. 120VAC to 24VAC. Have no idea what that was for...
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doorbell?
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05-25-2009, 11:17 PM
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#30
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12
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Could be old HVAC, too. My mom and dad's old furnace had an external 24VAC transformer about 6 feet away.
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05-25-2009, 11:37 PM
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#31
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 6,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grich
Could be old HVAC, too. My mom and dad's old furnace had an external 24VAC transformer about 6 feet away.
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That's my vote too. When old furnaces had thermostats that were levers with chain the went down to the furnace, they didn't need power. When controls started to be added, along with electric thermostats, the transformer was always remotely mounted. When you're troubleshooting a non-working chime in an older home, you stand a 50/50 chance of running across the abandoned furnace transformer first.
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05-26-2009, 12:33 AM
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#32
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12
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The panel swap looks good, by the way!
I just noticed this...look at the water heater. Do I see the telco ground clamp on the gas line?
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05-27-2009, 02:11 AM
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#33
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 76
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Yea I re-used the 10Vdc transformer for the doorbell, so I knew it wasn't for that. The A/C could be possible... Who knows. It wasn't even hooked up to anything so I have no idea what it was really for. I wish I could use it for something since it still works, but who knows what.
I don't think it was for the heater, as there is only one and its a "gravity" one in the basement going up into the living room/dining room. Maybe it had something to do with almost all the rooms being wired with a 220 outlet by a window? (for A/C I would think, what the heck else would they be for)
Oh well, just cool to find old stuff like that. (that still works!)
And the ground wire going to that gas line is for the cable, lol
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07-04-2009, 04:12 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archania
Yea, the 1/2 inch copper pipe was on the neutral. It was a run for a cottage in the rear of the property that was abandoned years ago. Still strange I thought, since every other neutral was fused.
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In the olden days, the neutral was often fused, too. The "original" service was typically a 30a 120v supply, both conductors fused, and two 15a circuits tapped from that, one run the length of the ceiling of each floor.
I like the sub-panel, not very different from what we might do today as part of an upgrade or multiple circuit addition. Are the original cables in both boxes the same vintage, or could we be looking at an up-graded service?
__________________
I laid in bed last night, looking up at the stars, and
I said to myself, "Where the hell is my ceiling?!"
Larry Fine, Master Electrician and
Electrical Contractor, Richmond, Va
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07-04-2009, 04:21 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDShunk
Shoulda figured it was a California install from the earthquake strap on the water heater.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky
Looks like a 28" Kindorf strap. |
A 28" Mineralac works in a pinch. You know, like when that's all you have on the truck.
__________________
I laid in bed last night, looking up at the stars, and
I said to myself, "Where the hell is my ceiling?!"
Larry Fine, Master Electrician and
Electrical Contractor, Richmond, Va
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07-04-2009, 04:25 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archania
Well finally, here are the pics of the replacement.
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I think it looks great!  The trough was a good choice, considering the quantity of cables and conduits.
__________________
I laid in bed last night, looking up at the stars, and
I said to myself, "Where the hell is my ceiling?!"
Larry Fine, Master Electrician and
Electrical Contractor, Richmond, Va
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07-04-2009, 04:28 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archania
Yea I re-used the 10Vdc transformer for the doorbell, so I knew it wasn't for that.
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Hmm. A DC transformer, eh? 
__________________
I laid in bed last night, looking up at the stars, and
I said to myself, "Where the hell is my ceiling?!"
Larry Fine, Master Electrician and
Electrical Contractor, Richmond, Va
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07-04-2009, 05:23 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Presque Isle, Maine
Posts: 2,207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Fine
Hmm. A DC transformer, eh? |
Sure just convert your dc to ac with a inverter then into a transformer then through rectifier and finally a voltage regulator. All this to run a ac powered door bell. 
__________________
Poetry is finer and more philosophical than history; for poetry expresses the universal, and history only the particular.
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07-04-2009, 11:15 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hamburg, PA
Posts: 252
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pic not working.
Last edited by pudge565; 07-04-2009 at 11:19 PM.
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07-06-2009, 12:36 AM
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#40
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 76
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It began as just a "sub panel" upgrade, but the the owner wanted to bump it up to 200 amps. It was originally a 75 amp service, but I also wasn't going to get away with the original #6 neutral feeder in there. So then I just ran the feeders out to the side of the house to a main breaker/ meter socket, and up the outside wall to the service drop.
I believe the old panels were all the same vintage (from when the house was built). The house is totally untouched and unmolested. The bigger box on the left was all 240v circuits- one outlet in almost every room that I "re-phased" to make them 120v outlets. The one on the right was all the knob & tube lighting and outlet circuits.
Yea, I dont know why I said 10Vdc
Last edited by Archania; 07-06-2009 at 12:40 AM.
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