Origin of '3-way' and '4-way' terms? - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

480sparky · 01-05-2009, 04:25 PM

I don't think I've ever seen a definitive answer to the question "Where did 3-way and 4-way switches get their names from?" I've heard plenty of theories, many plausable, some not.

But I just got an Arrow wiring devices catalog, quite old, but no date is given. Only information is "Catalog No. 22". There's a business card inside dated 1937.

In it, there are these wiring diagrams for 3-ways and 4-ways. Rather, 3-point and 4-point:

Speedy Petey · 01-05-2009, 06:25 PM

Very cool! That image should be a sticky on every DIY site out there.

I'll see if Nathan can sticky that on the DIY Chatroom site.

tpr · 01-05-2009, 07:21 PM

i like looking at old stuff and seeing where the origins of modern day items came from. i got one for you 480,on a modern single pole switch why is the switch up in the on position and down for off.it was explained to me that the old knife switches were installed that way ,so that gravity would open the switch if loose or not connected well. it just carried over to modern times. i find stuff like that intersting.i guess i have no life.

480sparky · 01-05-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpr

i like looking at old stuff and seeing where the origins of modern day items came from. i got one for you 480,on a modern single pole switch why is the switch up in the on position and down for off.it was explained to me that the old knife switches were installed that way ,so that gravity would open the switch if loose or not connected well. it just carried over to modern times. i find stuff like that intersting.i guess i have no life.

"Fail Safe" position. If it accidently goes down, it turn off instead of on, so an accident cannot turn the power on.

Here's another one: Origin of a '1900' box:

Trimix-leccy · 01-05-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpr

i like looking at old stuff and seeing where the origins of modern day items came from. i got one for you 480,on a modern single pole switch why is the switch up in the on position and down for off.it was explained to me that the old knife switches were installed that way ,so that gravity would open the switch if loose or not connected well. it just carried over to modern times. i find stuff like that intersting.i guess i have no life.

UK Up is off, down is on!

as for the origin of 'names' UK famous manufacturer of joint boxes

A 601 has 6 terminals...obvious really
A 401 has 3 terminals
A 301 has 4 terminals......WTF??

480sparky · 01-05-2009, 09:04 PM

Micheal over at Antique Sockets just let me know the catalog is from 1926.

Thanks, Mike!

InPhase277 · 01-06-2009, 09:28 PM

What's interesting is that under each switch it still says "3 way" or "4 way".

Now, I can understand it being called "3 point" or "4 point", due to the number of terminals.

I have a tone of old books and material that I have ripped out over the years. I just haven't photo'd it yet. But I also love searching Google Patents. You can find alot of neat stuff there. Here's some cool patents regarding grounding devices.

U.S. Patent #1,791,264: A grounding receptacle. Don't know why this didn't catch on. Filed in 1925.
U.S. Patent #2,682,646: First appearance of the NEMA 5-15 configuration that I can find. Though according to the description, the U pin was for the neutral, not ground. Filed in 1950.
U.S. Patent #2,672,593: First Grounding Duplex in the 5-15 configuration. Filed in 1952.

leland · 01-06-2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

Very cool! That image should be a sticky on every DIY site out there.

I'll see if Nathan can sticky that on the DIY Chatroom site.

no it should not! Are you ready to retire?

I also like the history! Thanks for sharing.

JohnJ0906 · 01-07-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

"Fail Safe" position. If it accidently goes down, it turn off instead of on, so an accident cannot turn the power on.

FWIW, it's still in the NEC - 404.6

RICK BOYD · 01-08-2009, 11:15 PM

I ask this question and an Englishman said they call them 3-wire & 4-wire devices

bobelectric · 01-18-2009, 09:54 PM

I still buy into the explanation that wires were called "ways", and thats why 3"ways" were called 3 ways Three wires.4 way,4wires.

480sparky · 01-18-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobelectric

I still buy into the explanation that wires were called "ways", and thats why 3"ways" were called 3 ways Three wires.4 way,4wires.

But then a DPST switch would be a 4-way as well. And a SPST would be a 2-way.

sherman · 01-19-2009, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

But then a DPST switch would be a 4-way as well. And a SPST would be a 2-way.

Where do you find this stuff?? Do you have a time machine Marty Mcfly?

Trimix-leccy · 01-19-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK BOYD

I ask this question and an Englishman said they call them 3-wire & 4-wire devices

Can't think why, prob not an Electrician

simple on-off switch is a 'one way'
single pole c/o switch is a 'two way'
dp c/o switch is an 'intermediate'

The number of actual 'switches' are called 'gangs'

so we have 1 gang 1 way, 1 gang 2 way, 2 gang 2 way etc etc etc and this is how all the UK manufacturers list them

Minuteman · 01-19-2009, 10:27 AM

Just a stab, but how about this?

Both up or both down: On
One up/one down: Off
Total of 3 ways???

Naw.. it don't work for four ways. Never mind.

Maybe 3 wires = 3 ways and 4 wires = 4 ways was before the DPSP was invented?

480sparky · 01-19-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuteman

Just a stab, but how about this?

Both up or both down: On
One up/one down: Off
Total of 3 ways???

A pair of three-ways have 4 possible combinations Up-Up, Up-Down, Down-Up, Down-Down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherman

Where do you find this stuff?? Do you have a time machine Marty Mcfly?

Yep, ever since ol' Doc Brown cracked his head on his toilet.

Actually, I collect old electric books.