berkey

are any of you contractors or working for contractors who converted from an open shop to a union shop in the last 2 years? why did they go? would they do it again?

randomkiller

Why not ask if any Union guys would go non union?

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John

For the right job and under certain circumstances I would go either way.

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Doubt All Before Believing Anything.......

berkey

probably wouldn't happen. around here the only thing the union hates more than non union, are ex union members being non union.

randomkiller

Ah, a switch hitter.

__________________
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

"One Nation Under God"

480sparky

I know of one local shop that did. They are no longer in business.

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John

Yep. There are advantages to being on either side of the fence ...so to speak.
I have been there and done that.

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Doubt All Before Believing Anything.......

miller_elex

When I crossed over, I thought that if I ever wanted, I could always go back non-union.

After two years on the union side, I know now, I am NEVER going back!

The level of professionalism, compensation, and way the people are treated is superior. The 'Book' works much better than I expected. Everything I was ever told on the other side about the union was grossly exaggerated or a lie.

I have no hard feelings at all towards non-union guys, I just wish more of them would wise up so we could make more. Some of the best electricians I know, who mean well, stay non-union only because they are afraid the union guys are going to dog them out if they join up. Never really happened to me... matter of fact, I've worked with alot more people like myself than anyone else.

oldman

there is a distinct difference in views between electricians and electrical contractors...who are you referring to in the OP?

LawnGuyLandSparky

I know quite a few shops that went union. Most are thriving, the ones that didn't AFAIC had no business being in business in the first place. The industry can only legitimately support a finite number of business's. Once that number is reached, the only chance of surviving and ecking out a living for a business owner is to do everything on the sly.

LawnGuyLandSparky

I hear it every week. Most of what a nonunion contractors or nonunion tradesman talk about is not from personal experience, just tales of woe, bar talk, outright lies and fabrications handed down from one boss to the next.

It's a pretty darn good statement, in and of itself, that you never hear about the union workers looking for a nonunion gig.

Never blame the men. Everyone has to put food on the table somehow.

oldman

we get calls weekly from out of work union electricians looking for work (they've outlasted their unemployment)

i agree with the wages, et al...but, why do so many union electricians become non-union electrical contractors?

liverstos

As an ex-union electrician, I can say that I have no hard feelings towards the union electricians, in fact I have been allowed to employ a union shop to help out at our plant. I can say that I left them alone to do the work, and because of the job they did, they are welcome back anytime.
I was given the boot from the union because I couldn't pay my dues, because I was book 2 everywhere, and I could only sit and watch the same book 1 hands dispatch out on long calls week after week. I am still not anti-union because they gave me my start in the trade, and I know unions have been a positive force for society as a whole. I still direct people interested in becoming an electrician, to contact the local jatc, but not to overlook the non union apprenticeships.

Celtic

Probably because of the feast/famine cycle.

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nap

because they see dollar signs all over the place. Some of them have visions of grandeur and think of all the money they can put in their pocket if they didn;t have to pay all those danged union benefits they are used to receiving. Some simply see all the overhead as an unsurmountable expense that would prevent them from becoming a contractor.

Both are true to a point but are the result of short sightedness generally. While a single man shop, they can break all the rules they want but when they start employing others, especially those looking for at least a few benefits (insurance etc) they realize that they cannot escape much of the overhead they tried to and end up being relegated to a staying a one man shop or a non-union shop that has difficulty employing good electricians because the good electricians, be they union or non-union, are working where the contractor will pay them what they deserve and include some bene's.

If you want good electricians, you have to be willing to pay what the market demands. it makes no difference if you are union or not.

nap

Sorry to hear of you rexperience. The union experinece is not one without some flaws although they generally are not of union making but of some individual(s) that improperly control their local.

Glas to hear it has not soured you totally and you do understand the originations of the unions. That is a very important point that many simply overlook or ignore.

Curious though; I know of no non-union apprenticeships in my area. What such entities are there out there in the rest of the world? ABC? I was told (by a person very close to a regional director in California) that they are very code oriented and lack the theory level training the IBEW provides. While that may make a good construction hand, it does not make a good electrician.

LawnGuyLandSparky

I'm confused, you had to be book 1 somewhere.

LawnGuyLandSparky

It takes money to make money. Many businesses fail because many businessmen believe there is some way of escaping that fact.

oldman

that's a lot of words to not answer my question...

oldman

not necessarily...we had a guy working for us a few years back that got into the union down in North Carolina...he was originally from NJ, and moved back here after a divorce...so while he may have been on book one in NC, here in NJ he was a traveler and relegated to book 2...so, he got tired of signing in every week for nothing and came to work for us...