oldman

you are bad at this game...keep practicing...still too transparent...

randomkiller

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. I looked into changing locals when I moved to NJ from NY. They had plenty of work and it wouldn't have been much of a problem to relocate, but I handled it on the up and up through BA's. I ended up staying in my same local.

__________________
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

"One Nation Under God"

randomkiller

Sure they do, so they can use cheap ass labor and not pay real bennies, you don't have to be an accountant to figure the cheapest way to start a business. God forbid you were just starting out and had to give a guy health and welfare benefits.

__________________
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

"One Nation Under God"

oldman

even your brother lawnguy realizes that the contractor merely handles the money...the customer pays for it...so,if the union is such a good deal for everyone, why don't they just go after the work that allows them to charge the customer enough money to employ union labor?

MechanicalDVR

Gee I was under the impression they did and do. That is why the unions don't go after residential.

oldman

wow...they really need to offer reading comprehension classes to you guys...the question was "since the contractor merely handles the money, and the customer pays for everything, why don't union electricians who become contractors, charge the customer enough to pay for union employees and all their benefits?"

does that make more sense?

MechanicalDVR

Hmm, have you been to the eye doctor lately because what you just wrote as an explaination of what you had previously written is like trying to follow a G Bush speech, none of it seems to have been in the earlier statement other than "since the contractor merely handles the money and the customer pays for everything" . Maybe take a few more of your old timers meds before posting those long confusing statements that you are the only one that can seem to follow.

oldman

seems to me, they have been going after it for quite awhile...

http://www.ibew.org/articles/99journ...3GoingHome.pdf

http://www.ibewflorida.org/orgnotes/...agreements.htm

http://www.ibew481.com/staffdetails.cfm?staff_ID=12 (heck these guys are targeting resi non-union contractors in an effort to increase their resi market share)

http://www.ibew353.org/ourprofile/sc...pealliance.htm (canada too)

http://www.ibew46.org/agreements/040...lAgreement.pdf (shoot, their total package in 2005 for a residential wireman was under $25...that's not a lot...why don't more contractors jump on this program?)

make 1 thing perfectly clear, i believe that for most employees, the union benefits are fantastic. i also believe that for the contractor, too large a % of union employees aren't worth what they are being paid...there are guys who are though...no dispute there...there are some phenomenal electricians in the union...but one memory that sticks in my mind was being on site with a Con-Ed employee...this was when I was in college and interning for an environmental remediation firm...we were cleaning a man hole, so the Con-Ed guys could go in and work...and what I will never forget is the one Con-Ed employee saying "They (Con-Ed) pay me from the neck down"

that just stuck in my head...take it for what it's worth...

but mostly, the unions still view the contractors as the enemy...that's gotta change...

oldman

does that clarify it for you? no wonder this country is in trouble...

MechanicalDVR

As long as it makes you feel better.

oldman

touché...

i'll add the definition for you, so you can follow along

tou·ché play_w("T0287100") (t-sh)interj. Used to acknowledge a hit in fencing or a successful criticism or an effective point in argument.


why would i feel better that this country can't comprehend English well enough to understand what is happening around them?

MechanicalDVR

Maybe the voices in your head are confusing you as you type.

oldman

maybe...

LawnGuyLandSparky

Possibly because contractors starting out are not comfortable diving into the deep end right off the bat. Start small, work your way up. In addition, not too many GCs on large projects are willing to hire an upstart.

LawnGuyLandSparky

I wonder where you're setting the bar to define "worth it?" No 2 employees are of the exact same calibur.

Clean Harbors?

I disagree. Unions know it's a 2-way street. I do know some of the organized contractors view the union as the enemy - and the overall corporate view that anything that stands in the way of a company having 100% complete control over everything is anti-business and must be destroyed.

wirehaired

The real kicker is I wanted to tranfer into this local union, get a good name for myself, then start my business, as a union business in my new location. Unions can be a good thing.....its a shame that many locals are taken over by popular guys that enjoy their new found power a little too much. ps this aint old man either.

MechanicalDVR

What was the end result?

wirehaired

Self employed independant contractor

MechanicalDVR

Where?

wirehaired

a stones throw away from you. in nj.