MechanicalDVR

Were you trying to deal with 400?

wirehaired

I dont really want to get into any specifics. tried to do the right thing, sent out feelers thru their local members, visited during the day & spoke to different people, then got to the e board and they had like 50 plus people jammed into the room acting all insolent and aggro. bad experience. Like I said I know what my rights are/were and they didnt live up to the IBEW international standards. My BA said there is nothing they can do, I am on my own for this type of thing. I always had a stellar rep in my home local, top of my class, BS from RU, and they treated me badly, what else can I say? If they would of acted like gentlemen things may have turned out different and I wouldnt be an open shop.

wirehaired

I dont really want to get into any specifics. tried to do the right thing, sent out feelers thru their local members, visited during the day & spoke to different people, then got to the e board and they had like 50 plus people jammed into the room acting all insolent and aggro. bad experience. Like I said I know what my rights are/were and they didnt live up to the IBEW international standards. My BA said there is nothing they can do, I am on my own for this type of thing. I always had a stellar rep in my home local, top of my class, BS from RU, and they treated me badly, what else can I say? If they would of acted like gentlemen things may have turned out different and I wouldnt be an open shop.

oldman

worth is defined by me as the following....the guy produces enough to generate enough money to cover his salary, benefits, OH and profit...if I pay him $70/hr and he only generates $10,000 worth of revenue in a months time, we have a problem...caveat this with the premise that the work is priced on standard industry times (whether NECA, actual company historical, some other way other than SWAG) and that hours are priced properly to account for labor rate...not talking about quoting $35/outlet for a commercial TI w/MC and expect to make money...

yep


i think the unions are getting better, the speech from Ed Hill that's made the rounds shows it...but I think it still hasn't reached everyone yet...

oldman

this does give quite a bit of insight into my views though..

LawnGuyLandSparky

Then the guy gets a layoff. Honestly, 9 out of 10 times I see union members not being productive are not due to circumstances within their control.

It's reaching plenty. You mentioned the MyLocal3 website, and read the cries of hundreds of members who were so used to playing games, they believed the goal was to be as unproductive as possible. Mostly 3rd generation members who thought political pull outweighed production.

Some people have to learn the hard way.

oldman

I will state for the record...and heck save this post if you want...i am not anti-union in theory...i think it's a wonderful system...employees get security, employers have a pool of qualified labor to pull from...it could be, and should be, a win-win...

but, the reality is that people and human nature ruin it...get on the bad side of a BA (as a contractor or as an employee) and see what happens...contractors get the dregs of the halls, employees get the worst jobs - when they work....

there is no argument from me, or from anyone else here, that the unions (and specifically the IBEW) can and does provide a good package for the employee...

what's frustrating is the seeming inability of some guys to admit that there are ways outside of the union for an employee to acquire a similar package...or the inability to admit that there are some bad apples in the union that ruin it for others....

if we could have a little more intellectual honesty regarding the subject, less guys would dig their heels in and antagonize the other side..but that wouldn't be nearly as fun...

(Translation for MechanicalDVR....Union good for some, union not good for others)

randomkiller

FYI, mech is a pretty intelligent guy

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LawnGuyLandSparky

And what happens to a nonunion employee when he's on the boss's bad side?

There are ways for an employee of a nonunion contractor to aquire a similar wage scale and benefit package? Do you really believe thats possible? Because if there was and it was common, the IBEW wouldn't exist. Are you saying a nonunion contractor out there has a similar Wage & fringe package, AND isn't a shop full of "helpers" who will never achieve journeyman status, can move to another shop and lose nothing?

Everyone in the union knows there are bad apples, there are bad apples in every field of employment. You can't believe any shop has a population of 100% rockets. I wonder though if this is your expectation?

oldman

wow...just completely unable to acknowledge that there is another side to the issue...good luck with that...carry on...

amptech

unbelievable

brian john

In my opinion this particular thread was the WORST thing to happen to this site, the whole union open shop issue is a WASTE OF time no one is ever going to change an other person opinion on this subject, might as well try to convert Muslims to Judaism.

I THINK many of the open shop members have tried to see the other side but some (NOT ALL) of the union member continue to exhibit what drives the two sides apart, a narrow minded approach to this issue along with a certain arrogance.


I now know why some forums keep this issue out and for the reasons noted above this is my last post on the forum.

If Nathan could remove me from the members list I would appreciate it.

Speedy Petey

Same goes for this thread. Have a rational discussion or take it someplace else.