miller_elex

To the job site, no. If you get into the program, they will probably provide you with the basic hand tools and bags. Don't go out and buy stuff until you know for sure, other wise you could be wasting your money.

Should you have tools, hell yes. The only thing holding me back from having a full-on working resi-commercial operation, is about seven dead 18V dewalt batteries, and all the necessary paperwork.

Well, I don't have a 'Macho' in the garage, they're around a grand a piece, but you would be surprised by what else is in there.

Should you advertise that you have all these tools to your coworkers? Probably not, unless you are certain that you know the person well enough to talk in confidence. These things take time to accumulate, I may have tools, but I also watch an early-90's 19" television bought from walmart, so plan accordingly.

Toronto Sparky

Union life is not a competition.
Knowledge is what you need to be a great union electrician, not the most tools.

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Don't fight .. Play nice!

RUSSIAN

Does the mechanic with $40,000 in tools fix your car better then the guy with $20,000? maybe, but his debt is twice as much, maybe he"s more concerned with his tools then your car. Yes there are mechanics with $40,000 in tools and boxes. Why, because they are in competition with each other, not who can do a better job but who has the latest box, or air tool.
Anyway the point to the tool list is because not everyone has the ability to replace drills and benders and K.O sets etc while some guys do. Is the guy who doesn't have kids or debt or whatever a better wiremen, doubtful. in fact the guy who needs the money the most is probably the harder working, showing up everyday kinda guy(again, not always). When I worked nonunion I bought 2 drill sets in 3 years. My dewalt cost $300 and I was making $12.00 an hour at the time. I still have the drill and the batteries are worthless....
Nowadays the contractors replaces the batteries and I worry about the work I'm doing, not my $300 drill.

Bob Badger

Well that is just sad.

I guess your also into kids sports that do not keep score 'Everyones a winner'


Is it fair to the idiots if you use that knowledge?

How is that different from have better tools?

Knowledge is a tool.







Spin it however you want, but the bottom line is forcing people not to use tools they may want to use to be more productive is hard to justify.

Notelitus

What is a Macho?

Notelitus

Most locals consider their tool list a minimum, meaning you could bring more. I'm sure they would frown upon you bringing in your own ladder and rotary hammer, etc. But if someone doesn't like me using a spintight (nut driver) because it's not on my tool list, they are going to have to go pound sand.


I'm in NJ too, what local are you in that has this in the bylaws? I never looked myself, but it was explained to us that a contractor can not force you to use your own vehicle for company work. If you choose to use it, that is ok, and you can except reimbursement. However, there is no demand that you get paid if you don't require it.

I used my own vehicle multiple times over the years, mostly because I just didn't mind doing it and it helped out a lot. Only once did I ask for reimbursement because it was using a lot of gas.

Like I said, I never looked it up myself, but I remember talking about it in class as an apprentice and recently I asked a BA just to make sure it was still current and he confirmed it.

Using your own vehicle is another thing that the other guys or shop stewart might have issue with, but they can pound the same sand as before.

Celtic

Hopefully....your employer won't tell you to pound sand when some malcontent breaks into your car to steal the company tools....or steals your vehicle for the tools and content.

Can you imagine the paperwork cluster fork over this issue?

The employer will be none too happy that his tools have been boosted - are YOU going to reimburse him....your insurance company?

Will the employer believe that YOU didn't steal/break them....maybe doing sidework with all his tools...or because your xmas wasn't up to par?


It's potentially a messy situation at best.


You should read your CBA, By-laws and Constitution and think:
Why is this in here?

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Lucky

I was raised union mainly by my grandfather, who was a railroad telegrapher. Bob, you obviously were not raised union. Unions originally werre organised to decrease the inevitable competition between workers. However, you have benefited from this decrease in competition. Whether you are or are not union, the wages and benefits won by the unions over the last 100 years have increased your living standards. Electrical workers used to have some of the worse working conditions; the work was extremely dangerous, due in part to a total lack of safety training, and of course to the employers rush to get the work done. Personally, I have seen more safety awareness, and training since I started working in the trade, over 40 years ago. Ladder safety, wearing of fall arrest equipment, wearing hearing protection, even wearing gloves all have become part of working union. Your experience in the trade itself seems to reflect my own. I am a JW in both construction and maintenance work. The last 30 years have spent working union in the Alberta Tar Sands; previous to that I worked in the hardrock mining industry, mainly underground as an electrician. Safety awareness and training is pretty thorough in the Tar Sands. This is driven by the unions, including the IBEW. I saw the lack of safety awareness with non-union companies such as Ledcor. When I worked in the tool crib on an open job I was on, I used to get safety reports. Invariably, Ledcor's safety practices were not up to union standards. I saw some Ledcor workers using an extension ladder as a scaffold. My GF did not believe me until I showed him the situation. I must admit I did not believe it myself until I took a second look. The ladder was removed when the client safety person came into the situation. This is what working non-union means for the workers involved. My impression was they never got the kind of safety training union workers get as a matter of course. Lower wages, inferior benefits are only part of the problem. Little or no representation on the job also is a problem.
Jobs I worked on ranged in price from a few hundred thousand dollars to 10 billion dollars, so the companies involved could afford to work safe. No Mom and pop outfits in the Tar Sands.
Lucky

miller_elex

Well said Lucky.

Unfortunately, today, there is no shortage of people trying to undo the sacrifices made by your grandfather's generation. Sadly, these folks are all beneficiaries of those sacrifices. I am all for healthy competition. But when an unsafe practice kills you dead, that $40 an hour package is all worthless. Same to be said for guzzling three rockstars a day and burning out at 30. The money don't mean sh1t if you don't have your health.

Thanks for putting the day back in perspective Lucky.

RUSSIAN

No it's not. Every tool I need that is not on the list is at the job waiting for me, or will be the the next day. Every man on the job has the same opportunity to be productive. Less competition means less back stabbing, less a$$ kissing and an overall better sense of comradery(in my experience)
Not everyone treats life as a competition. I could care less what other people are doing, and have no desire to be better then them.

Notelitus

I've used my truck to haul material or tools around the jobsite and I've gone out to get material or tools from the shop or the supply house. Never a realistic time when something would be stolen or when i could use it for sidework during the workday
Like I said, it's been confirmed multiple times that the only issue is that a contractor can not force you to use your vehicle, and you can require payment if you choose to use it. That is what our bylaws say. Again, what local are you quoting this bylaw from? What local requires "IRS mileage guidelines" payment or whatever that was you said earlier?

brian john

As the union loses it's market share.

Somehow that just seems like a strange statement. have you check for your nad's lately.

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I void warranty's

Notelitus

Actually, unions were started to propagate the socialist ideal. The propaganda was that unions were for the workers and better treatment etc. etc. But the people pushing unions, the people who started it everything, had one goal in mind...

Notelitus

Tell me, how is ANYTHING you just explained better for the customer?

Do you think Ed Hill would say the words that you just did?

Peter D

Excellent point. Unions are fundamentally socialist in their guiding principles. In fact, what some have even admitted in this thread bears this out.

miller_elex

Well then, lets talk about socialist Canada, socialist Germany, socialist Japan, oh, and lets not forget about the nation founded on prophecy, socialist Israel. Israel was founded by socialist labor leaders to be a worker's paradise, check your Hebrew history.

We can go round and round on this one,

lets bring up capitalist Mexico, or capitalist China, how about the capitalist Phillippines, or capitalist Indonesia? If you would rather work in the Mexican economy, where it is freely competitive, no regulations to hold you back, then you've really got your head screwed on backwards.

RUSSIAN

Are you really equating market share to company supplied tools???? Market share directly equates to lower wages, lower overhead and anti union sentiment.
My nads are fully in tact and I stand by my statement. Maybe it's a west coast thing, but I don't "keep up with Jones's" nor do I go to work worried about my job because "Joe blow" has better tools then me.

Brian, for someone who operates a union shop, you sure are anti-union

RUSSIAN

The customer doesn't care about anything but the price and the product. It's not my job to sell the product, only install it in a professional, productive manner.
And for the record, before the recession 3 of the top 5 shops in the country, terms of revenue, were based in 332. Properly run businesses can thrive even while paying there employees top dollar

What part would Ed Hill have a problem with it?

And when did I say anything about the customer???

brian john

Actually I see both sides of the issue, if the open shop guys were spreading the BS as deep as the union men I'd be giving them the other side of the story.

I have always said for the worker being union is the best way to go. What I do not like is the BS and propaganda that some swallow hook line and sinker.

Be proud of being union but cut the other side some slack.

The union is not open to everyone.

In addition look at the apprentices wondering what to do as they sit and wait for work. And one union poster noted he husband is NOT ALLOWED to work at a job outside the IBEW, SEEMS STUPID TO ME.

I think a change in attitude in the union would benefit them a lot more than dragging a giant rat out to complain that men are doing work in their "AREA"

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I void warranty's

Bob Badger

Then by all means stay wrapped up in the protective arms of the union.

Me, I like to know I personally earned what I get and that is was not received through the intimidation and extortion of past trade members.