gardiner

Before going into this let me state I have not done drugs in over 30 years and I do not drink both of these are by choice. Further to that statement when asked to do a drug test I tell the employer he is renting my services and as of now the tenancy is terminated.

I will also admit I have only been asked about a drug test three times and in each case it had to do with dealing with a project being lead by a company not of Canadian origion from that only one of the times by refusing did I not work. Amazing rules get thrown out the window when there are not enough people willing to go along with it.Everyone remember as with every situation the more the people allow to be done to them the more that will be done.

Many drugs are considered illegal not because the people felt they were wrong but because the government after being wooed by special interest groups made them illegal. Amazing what the beer, liquor and tobacco industry has been able to do isn’t it.

Now I am not a Union member for some strange reason I like to have my freedom and not have to bend over to others. I’m not American don’t live in the “Land of the Free” but then from the sound of it none of you do either. I believe a man comes to work drunk or stoned kick him out, but what he does on the weekend in the privacy of his own home is not the business of the employer or the Union (thought this group promoted brotherhood not big brother).

PhatElvis

I bet there is a similar law in every state, and your right to "privacy and to do what you want on your free time" may cost you a lot if you are injured on the job and gives the insurance boys a free ride. It's a free country, do what you want but as a married man with kids, I take my risk factors very seriously.

rewire

Drug testing is just like doing a background check,illegal drug use is a crime plain and simple even when done on your own time.If you molested children on your own time and were caught I will see it on your background check and you will not be hired and if you use drugs on your own time it will show on a drug screen and you will not be hired.
Exposure to liability is a major factor for employers if you are involved in an accident and have drugs in your system then the first thing that happens is they will look at my drug testing policy and I better have one.
I spoke with my lawyer who told me if someone with a criminal history commits a crime while in my employ and I did not do a background check I can be found negligent.
I had an employee leave over our drug testing policy I hated to see him leave but it was not worth the liability he might create.As an employer I always have to look at the exposure I have to lawsuits and take steps to limit it.

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PhatElvis

BINGO!!! Then after that employee drug user is turned down for workman's comp, he gets an ambulance chaser to sue you and the GC and god help you if you have any OSHA violations.

gardiner

To me employers in general, mandating the behavior outside the work environment or outside their business are an infringement of the employee’s rights. Plus I would like to know why someone going to lunch and having a few sociable drinks then going back to work in the office each day has the right to tell someone on the weekend he can’t smoke a joint. Just because person “A” is an executive either in the business or union and person “B” is just an employee who without person “A” might actually have to get his hands dirty again and work for a living.

As far as I am concerned you hired me for my skills. If the skills are sharp and not interfered with (on drugs or booze while working) if I show up on time if I do what I am told then you have no right to look into what I do at home. If I break the law at home that’s what some of the taxes paid out is for pay the police to do their job.

Fear of lawsuits that is something that I seem to hear from many on this forum, maybe it is time to fix the legal system so lawsuits go back to what they were intended for, helping the victim of some injustice. Or failing that shoot all the lawyers, I’m sure that the court system would start working and crime rate would go down at the same time.

rewire

Remember the job belongs to the employer. As long as they remain within the law an employer can require anything they like ,you have the right to refuse but you do not have a right to the job.

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rewire

Actually as long as I maintain workmans comp I cannot be sued for a work related accident that was not caused by my negligence.

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sparky105

I am down the road from you, work out of 105 and in 20 yrs have never heard of a drug test on the job here unless you do damage at the IOL refinery. Can they even ask us here in Ontario to do a drug test ?

gardiner

I do have the right to refuse and as I said previously I have refused and I have seen enough people refuse that the employer changed their policy and dropped the test. Nice part of being in areas where jobs outnumber people.
What I am sying is the ability to dictate what a person does outside of the workplace is wrong. The employer pays for someones services x number of hours per day and x number of days per week. If the employer is paying me compensation at home then he or she can have a say in what I do "no compenstaion equals no say". After all slavery is suppose to be frowned on in most civilized countries today, and to me someone that thinks because they pay spmeone for their services they can now dictate what that person does 24/7 is a form of slavery.
As I said if the person shows up drunk or stoned then send his a** to the unemployemnt line. But if he is sober and straight "back off" its not any of your business. Are taxes pay for professionals to look after unacceptable behavour not employers or Unions.

gardiner

I think they are allowed to ask. But I know of no Canadian based company that would ask. Why take the chance of having no one pass and not being able to complete the job.

There is a story of a company asked to send some employees (not electricians but construction related) to the States to do a job out of 267 employees only three were allowed over the boarder and when they arrived they failed the American companies drug test and had to be sent back.

sparky105

That 's the resitual alchol from our beer it stays with u longer even the near beer up here will make you fail that test.

PhatElvis

In Texas you can. In fact you can be sued by an employee from your sub as a second tier employer...all the way down to the supplier of the sub, as long as it happens on the job site and can be connected you, there is some liability.

gardiner- Here is free unsolicited sincere advice:

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

You can be right or you can be employed. Sure sometimes you can be both, but as the lawyers get smarter, and the insurance companies get tougher those times may become more rare.

When you are responsible for the livelihood of 50 men, and a small office staff, your perspective changes and if running a drug free environment makes you more appealing to your customers, and reduces your risks and insurance premiums then you may find yourself having to turn away pefectly good electrician who were right, but not employable. Now imagine that.

rewire

If what you do on your own time impacts my business then I have every right to tell you not to engage in that activity as a condition of employement. In slavery you would have no choice but you do have a choice .
I always joke with the guys I don't want to see them on the 5 oclock news draped over a patrol car wearing a company T shirt.
This is no different than getting a speeding ticket in your private vehicle it affects my company insurance rate so I can require a clean driving record.
Drug use is just not an easy position to defend you simply make a choice between a job and drugs.I am going to keep drug users out of my workplace for the safety of others and to do that everyone gets drug tested.

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bward76

Good edit...I caught that.

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gardiner

I can see the arguement of affecting business if the drugs or alchol is done on the job or directly before or during. but what done on the weekend is not your business.
I just wonder if you were faced with the labor shortages we have seen over the past few years if you would really turn down someone or even make a drug test manitory if by doing so you knew the chance of getting enough labor to do the job might very well be impossible.
Amazing how ideals and morals in business change when money is involved.
And I still think most of this thread and opinions stated stinks of totalitarianism and fear.

John Valdes

Obama has told the feds and the states they will no longer pursue grow-ops and dispensaries. That state law trumps federal law in this regard. This is the first President that has clearly paved the way for legalization of marijuana. I applaud his action.
Now, what is needed is further action to legalize all drugs. All drugs including heroin and cocaine. Growing your own marijuana should be no different than the summer garden of tomatoes and peppers. This would eliminate the shady side of drug use. As said earlier, we can most likely reduce our prison populations by a significant percentage. And yes, the DEA and agencies like this go and stand in the unemployement line like everybody else.

Treat drugs just like alcohol. Same safe driving laws ect.......

And please, no drugs on the job. If you must, do it at home when you are not on call.

steelersman

Well said John.

BryanMD

Just repeal the laws that were put in place for all those wrong reasons:
legalize all natural state agricultural product
medicalize all pharmaceutical product

As to employers... they can discriminate in hiring and retention for pretty much anything (outside the big 7) that they choose to *consistently* apply to all applicants and employees. Don't like it? start your own company.

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Bendezium

It is pretty cool in my opinion, but I wouldn't jump to conclusion that legalization of drugs will make accountability disappear if they are found in your system after an accident. As PhatElvis has said, lawyers will dig up anything possible and use it against you.

rewire

Sucks to live in Texas. Workmnas comp was set up just to stop lawsuits our legislature passed it into law that if you carried workmans comp then employees had to accept what the paid and could not sue.

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