nick

Well Brian its ok we know what you testing guys do and charge us for testing our equipment on each project , We cant legally do it so we have Electric Power Systems they do it for us !

I kinda only see what our company has or does ill say weve got some good people and electricians so that was my point .


Dont ever see other electrical contractors work or jobs i guess you see more by testing and traveling around the country Brian ?

Its ok Brian my feathers are not ruffled we see your point makes me wonder what others are doing ? Take care

knowshorts

When I read the thread title, I said "oh crap, here we go again". I was wrong. Thanks for playing nice...at least for the first 21 posts.

As far as the IBEW lowering it's skill level, I know there are some who were organized just because they happened to be running a temp power cord when an organizer showed up to their job site.

After WWII local 11 went down to the Naval shipyards in San Pedro, Wilmington, and Long Beach to gather up electricians for their first formal organizing drive. One of the first to sign up was a small little pipe fitter who wore a blue and white engineers outfit. Didn't know a lick of electrical. He happened into the wrong line. Yet he was a member for quite a few years.

I believe the locals who organize like crazy, just might be in it for recognition or dues money, and in turn might cause higher unemployment. Back in the day, when you had to know someone to get in, I think there was a stronger work ethic and more pride in one's own work.

Overall, the lack of skill level is due to uneducated, unmotivated, entitled kids and for some reason we are not allowed to crack some sense into them, because it might damage their self-esteem.

Peter D

In my area, all electricians are required to go to school, but sitting in class and actually learning something are worlds apart. In my experience, I found that very few workers actually care about learning the "nuts and bolts" of the trade - things like electrical principles, derating, etc.

As for construction electricians being assemblers, that is the very definition of construction work.

brian john

Some of the biggest slackers I know had Daddy's that were in a good place to get their son in the local. Hell some of the biggest druggies in the 70's had connections in the local, that is what kept them in time after time and kept a few good men out.

__________________
I void warranty's

manchestersparky

From what I've seen and continue to see
The work ethic in general has gone down. That and more electricians seem to getting in a rut and staying there as it's comfortable. Some are pipe wizards, some are large pipe wizards, some wire pull gurus, some are systems fanatics,
There are those who only do service work.
I have seen electricians with 25+ years and can't read a print correctly.
I mean they have no clue how to look at a complete set of drawings and get their answers.
There are those who are at the top of the game also.

It seems that the days of an electrician being able to do it all are slipping away?
Instead we have guy A who runs conduit, Guy B pulls cable,
group C trims out.
We have residential guys who have never done anything but jerk romex.
Yeah I can see where one can use the term installers

brian john

Nick:

I have 39 years in the trade and that alone gives me an edge BUT I have an edge beyond that. In the first 10 years I did construction, industrial, commercial, fire alarms, controls, generators and transfer switches, gas stations, schools, churches, garden apts., condos, houses tract and custom, homes. I took the time to get around the trade and learn all aspects because I wanted to be well rounded.

Today the one area I lack in is code and espically residential code as I have not kept up with the changes in the residential market an area I do almost no work in.

I base my comments on assemblers not as a slight as I said previously or in some hubris (worked it in boys) approach to our profession but on experience.

I have commented before on how I try to teach others and a vast majority tell me they could care less about what I am doing, get it done and get out. This is not a Washington DC thing, I have expierenced it across the nation, union and open shop.

Remember there is a lot to learn here, yet between here, MH and the other electrical sites there are very few members when compared to the vast numbers of assemblers out there. And those here are usually NOT ASSMEBLERS but professionals that want to get ahead and learn something then there are a few that like to stir the pot.

__________________
I void warranty's

steelersman

I can't stand pot-stirrers

nick

Well Brian we see one apprentice out of ten thats going to make a good electrician . Each year we go thur lots of help our company sees lots of workers pass thur the doors so we see it . The future is here !

Ive been working in the trade since 1969 . Wve done all the mistakes thats why were wiser today !

Lots of jobs thur the years only commercial and industrial & a few power plants i know nothing about a house but i did build mine and failed my electrical inspection because i had a box in the attic . Here i do multi million dollar electrical projects for my company and i failed my own home electrical inspection . we think about just what we see not what anyone else sees .
Take care some posts really get us to think that there is others out there not just us .

goose134

I don't think this is a union issue. There are good apprentices in non-union and union construction. There are also the ones who you try and show the correct way, or explain a theory to and they are not worth the effort. I believe that open shop and union alike would tell you they have both types of people.

As it has been said, all we can do is show a good example to follow.

miller_elex

Vulcan mind-meld with Nick and Brian John. Do it now Spock!

Bob Badger

I agree with Brian and if your honest with yourself I think you will see it as well.

Not everyone on large jobs are assemblers but many are. Nick your the brains, that is why your in that plan shack you posted. But on those large jobs you work on a good portion of the electricians on that job only care about getting their hours in and have no interest in doing anything more then installing equipment.

If your running 30,000 feet of 4" underground, or 4000 light fixtures most of the guys doing that are just assembly line workers. You will spread some lead guys with a bunch of 'non-leaders'.

You can't tell me everyone on your jobs is equal in ability or motivation.

__________________
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction and Maintenance
MA, RI, CT

brian john

And the industry needs those guys, make a guy a specialist and then ask him to install 4" GRS and he'll look at you like you are nuts.

__________________
I void warranty's

nick

Well honestly yes i agree we have people that specialize in each of there own areas like i do gear power distribution on every project we have crews that only do one job on all jobs .

We do flip flop people around meaning let them move around different tasks to give them a chance to see how they perform best in different parts of our projects .

I mostly get the old timers or the most seasoned electricians do to the dollars in gear and the cost on most jobs , our company has a training program if you want to learn they have a actual training center at our main shop which you attend school and learn how to bend conduit , read prints , pull wire , code classes , read and understand mechanical or structural drawns , just about any aspect in our trade.

And they pay for the guys to attend classes . once a year they have a code seminar and we always have like greenlee or dewalt or others come and demo there best tools for our guys .

The main goal of our work force is a positive one if you want to be a electrician we will teach you and pay you !

Honestly i can say our electricians are well on there way to become better trained electricians in the field .

If you make the effort to do this your work force will be well trained you production will be at its best and it will pay for itself time and time .

You have to push or sell it to them but most workers what to learn at least i think so i maybe wrong i never stopped learning yet !!

Take care be safe

miller_elex

An inhouse training center sounds like a good place to screen people for advancement. If classes were free, but the time was not paid for, that would identify guys who were hungry to work hard and do a better job.
Not just that, the 'thinkers' are the guys with the most potential, identify them and nurture them, gain trust and loyalty, sounds like a winning business plan. But, I don't know business, just want to be a good installer.

nick

Well we originally did not pay workers to attend but not many came! When you pay they do come and they actually see that our company is really interested in training .

Then the next class there attendance is less until we see the hardcore interested electricians in class .

Its a process of elimination and the men get a book that they can show what classes they passed when its evaluation day a pay increase or a progress report yearly on a worker it looks good for them .

If you invest in your work force you will invest wisely .
One must use a little honey and the bees will come ! Take care be safe