How can the IBEW change it's damaged reputation? - Page 2 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

brian john · 01-04-2010, 03:30 PM

All great points

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickvic277

i think this is a good question and a realistic topic of conversation,i like to share some of my point of views.

1)quality control of membership development.stop,stop,stop with the rampant nepotism.bring the kids in who score highest on the test and give a good first impression at there interview,regardless of who there related to.
Hold apprentices accountable for there performance in school.stop pushing guy's through,if you fail,your out.
When organizing test guy's in and put them at the right level stop handing out journeyman tickets like there candy,also when taking in apprentices if they have past experience let them test in so they can be placed at the correct level.

2)journeyman development.i think if the points i made above are met we would have a much bigger pool of top professional electricians and way less slugs giving the rest of us a bad name.also we should have some sort of required continuous education for j-man.

3)training.stop claiming that we have the best training in the industry and show it.when trying to organize contractors or attract contractors to sign the agreement,bring them to the school,let them see what there getting when they sign.i worked non-union for 6 years before joining the local.my training consisted of a 6 month tech school and learn as you go.now i am close to finishing the local's school(5 year program) and there is no comparison.what i got in my union training was far more intense and involved then anything ever made available to me when i was non union.give tours of the school to both potential contractors and customers.

These are just some of my ideas off the top of my head.i think the goal is to produce the very best work force possible while being able to maintain top condition and wages.most union electricians are honest hard working people but the percentage that are not is what people talk about and right now from my short time in it seems that percentage is to high.

I know there are some union guy's out there that are going to tare my post apart but that's fine. These are just my opinions on what we could do to improve ourselves.i know i might come off a bit to critical of my own union but for what it's worth,organizing in to my local was one of the best moves i could ever have made.my life definitely changed for the better when i joined.but there's always room for improvement.

Oh yae i'm not a contractor.

brian john · 01-04-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boulengerina

My experience with Service Industries is much the same as your daughter's. I guess it goes back to what Bob said about the press and the "one union" mentality.

50 w-2's in a year? No $#!+??? That's deplorable.

Thanks for your input, Brian.

I realize his situation was rare but he is one example of a guy that should be booted.

We need to be positive in our approach to organizing; giving an open shop contractor a bad taste in his mouth will do little to advance the organizing.

boulengerina · 01-04-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickvic277

I think this is a good question and a realistic topic of conversation,I like to share some of my point of views.

I know there are some union guy's out there that are going to tare my post apart but that's fine. These are just my opinions on what we could do to improve ourselves.I know I might come off a bit to critical of my own union but for what it's worth,organizing in to my local was one of the best moves I could ever have made.My life definitely changed for the better when I joined.But there's always room for improvement.

Oh yae I'm not a contractor.

Quite alright that you are not a contractor. Everything you said seems right on target, and I could not agree more. Anyone that slams your post needs to do some soul-searching, and not try to make themselves feel good by putting someone else down.

Congrats on making it to your 5th year. Maintain your current attitude, and give 'em 8 for 8, and you will certainly not be "one of THOSE guys"! Good Luck, and thanks for the feedback.

slickvic277 · 01-04-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boulengerina

Quite alright that you are not a contractor. Everything you said seems right on target, and I could not agree more. Anyone that slams your post needs to do some soul-searching, and not try to make themselves feel good by putting someone else down.

Congrats on making it to your 5th year. Maintain your current attitude, and give 'em 8 for 8, and you will certainly not be "one of THOSE guys"! Good Luck, and thanks for the feedback.

thanks.

boulengerina · 01-04-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

We need to be positive in our approach to organizing; giving an open shop contractor a bad taste in his mouth will do little to advance the organizing.[/font][/color]

Right you are! Seems so simple... Why don't we get it? The 5th year guy (Slickvic) that replied basically laid out our plan here at this local, and it's working. Hell, we can't even kick a guy out here in NC, due to some stupid state laws, but we still weed 'em out!

smitty1358 · 01-04-2010, 03:55 PM

How bout we start at the top. One man one vote. Maybe with good leadership things can start to change. Not a big fan of Mr. Hill.

slickvic277 · 01-04-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty1358

How bout we start at the top. One man one vote. Maybe with good leadership things can start to change. Not a big fan of Mr. Hill.

Nor am I,the biggest problem is the amount of power granted to the IP,read the bylaws.We need to change them to get change at the top,hard to do.
I would like to see a young foward thinking guy running the international not these dinosaurs with there dinosaur train of thought.

brian john · 01-04-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty1358

How bout we start at the top. One man one vote. Maybe with good leadership things can start to change. Not a big fan of Mr. Hill.

I hear this alot BUT what is the big issues with Mr Hill. I thought he was trying to take the IBEW in a positive direction?

smitty1358 · 01-04-2010, 04:08 PM

Bylaws, you mean our Constitution.

smitty1358 · 01-04-2010, 04:17 PM

I dont wanna get off on a rant bout Mr. Ed, but we can start with his CE/CW program to gain market share. Code of excellence, no rules for double booking, I could go on but it would be off topic.

slickvic277 · 01-04-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

I hear this alot BUT what is the big issues with Mr Hill. I thought he was trying to take the IBEW in a positive direction?

The one thing that bothers me about are president is he to quick to interfere with local unions affairs.For example my local by market share is considered the number 1 or 2 local in the country.The one thing that we do that is vastly different to everyone else is journeyman have the right to if s.o.j(if you remember that thread).When one of our struggling sister locals decided to vote this practice in,in an attempt to improve there local,Mr.Hill decided to swoop in and stop it.Referral only he said.

I know the only reason he has aloud us to continue this practice is because of our high market share and record breaking man hours.
This is a practice as old as our local and our members feel strongly about it.I have know doubt that if we slipped even for a moment he would swoop in assume control and run our local into the ground.

Ask them guys from Beaver,PA. about Mr.Hill and how he can destroy a local.

slickvic277 · 01-04-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty1358

Bylaws, you mean our Constitution.

Yes.

boulengerina · 01-04-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty1358

How bout we start at the top. One man one vote. Maybe with good leadership things can start to change. Not a big fan of Mr. Hill.

Too rhetorical for this discussion... be more specific... What's the problem? What is President Hill doing wrong?

slickvic277 · 01-04-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty1358

I dont wanna get off on a rant bout Mr. Ed, but we can start with his CE/CW program to gain market share. Code of excellence, no rules for double booking, I could go on but it would be off topic.

The ce/cw program is a giant step backwards and is hypocritical to every J-man rate in the IBEW.Actually that would be a great topic for a new thread.

smitty1358 · 01-04-2010, 04:23 PM

Go back to post #30.

boulengerina · 01-04-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty1358

but we can start with his CE/CW program to gain market share. Code of excellence, no rules for double booking, I could go on but it would be off topic.

What is wrong with the CE/CW program? I'm not being an ass, I just want to know your thoughts. And none of this is off topic. This kind of feedback is exactly what I was looking for!

slickvic277 · 01-04-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boulengerina

What is wrong with the CE/CW program? I'm not being an ass, I just want to know your thoughts. And none of this is off topic. This kind of feedback is exactly what I was looking for!

Theres a few things I don't like about it.The first is it completely discredits the apprenticeship and the Journeyman alike.It sends the message that you don't need our training to be "the best trained in the industry".Which is the exact selling point of the IBEW.It also devides the members amongst themselves,apprentices feeling that there being stepped over and journeyman feeling there being cut out which in turn will turn the ce/cw against both the apprentices and journeyman alike.Division amongst the members is the first sign in a failing organization.

I like how my local handles organizing.I'll use me as an example.I had tech school education and 6 years commercial/industrial experience but I did not go through a state approved apprentice program so I didn't have an official Journeyman card.What they did was they brought me in at the next higher rate then what I was making non union(which was 50% of the j-man rate)and they credited me with 2000 field hours towards the program.But I still had to go through the entire apprentice schooling.It didn't bother me as I don't knock education.I came in at $24 per hour which was more then what i was getting non union.If I was brought in as a ce/cw(which my local doesn't do) I still be at the same rate and would miss out on the education.
And besides I thought education is what the IBEW is all about.

boulengerina · 01-04-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickvic277

Theres a few things I don't like about it.The first is it completely discredits the apprenticeship and the Journeyman alike.It sends the message that you don't need our training to be "the best trained in the industry".Which is the exact selling point of the IBEW.It also devides the members amongst themselves,apprentices feeling that there being stepped over and journeyman feeling there being cut out which in turn will turn the ce/cw against both the apprentices and journeyman alike.Division amongst the members is the first sign in a failing organization.

I like how my local handles organizing.I'll use me as an example.I had tech school education and 6 years commercial/industrial experience but I did not go through a state approved apprentice program so I didn't have an official Journeyman card.What they did was they brought me in at the next higher rate then what I was making non union(which was 50% of the j-man rate)and they credited me with 2000 field hours towards the program.But I still had to go through the entire apprentice schooling.It didn't bother me as I don't knock education.I came in at $24 per hour which was more then what i was getting non union.If I was brought in as a ce/cw(which my local doesn't do) I still be at the same rate and would miss out on the education.
And besides I thought education is what the IBEW is all about.

All good points... What would be your advice to a Local facing a non-Union market that runs ratios of 1 to 9? (That's one JW for every nine helpers!). I've been to a lot of southern Locals where this is the case, and if they have a typical northern ratio of, say, 3 to 1 (3 JW's to every App), they simply cannot compete.

Again, I'm not being an ass... Just playing "devil's advocate".

And do the CE/CW's advance as quickly as apprentices do?

smitty1358 · 01-04-2010, 04:52 PM

You nailed it. Not saying you will but if you ever have to hit the road, Youll see first hand how some locals got this CE/CW thing jammed in there you know what. Not good.

slickvic277 · 01-04-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boulengerina

All good points... What would be your advice to a Local facing a non-Union market that runs ratios of 1 to 9? (That's one JW for every nine helpers!). I've been to a lot of southern Locals where this is the case, and if they have a typical northern ratio of, say, 3 to 1 (3 JW's to every App), they simply cannot compete.

Again, I'm not being an ass... Just playing "devil's advocate".

And do the CE/CW's advance as quickly as apprentices do?

I have limited education on the ce/cw classifications but I believe that they do not have to progress if they don't want to and that is were the danger lies.I know that we have it tough in the south and it is an uphill battle and I don't pretend to have the answers but I feel this new classification is not a step in the right direction.If it was system designed to get working adults into some sort of advanced apprentice system then yae,maybe it could work.I don't know Unions in the south are being attacked from all sides and I don't think there is one solution.