Legacy - Page 3 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

EDM · 11-03-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

As far as I know the average auto worker makes about $60,000.00 a year.

Do you also realize that the average autoworker is an unskilled factory worker? The average auto worker holds a job that he learned in a matter of hours. $60K in a state with low cost of living? What a racket!

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They are working ten hour days with many of them working with pain from carpel tunnel, and various other injuries that have occurred on the job.

Just like minimum wage shelf stockers at the local grocery store.

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It takes a good wage to get people to show up every day and to work under the conditions that most of us do.

People show up to work everyday for minimum wage.

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And by the way , does 60k sound excessive to you. If it does, maybe should need to look for another line of work.

$60K doesn't sound excessive for an electrician, especially not in my state. As an IBEW member I make nearly twice that, but I also make my contractor a lot of money using my skills and experience. That's a fact that the average UAW can't claim.

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some are w

Huh?

BryanMD · 11-03-2009, 03:51 PM

There are three primary (and generational) faults left as the inheritance (or "Legacy") from the good old days of union power.

The first goes back to the 60's when the reality of what the Marshall Plan allowed our former enemies to accomplish began to set in at the same time that the first of the baby boom generation wanted some of those good but then ever declining union jobs.

Combine this with the shift from democratic political alliances and a racist backlash too among the members and just about everyone was happy to give the shaft to whoever stood still long enough to get it... so long as they didn't get it themselves. This applied to all industrial unions not just UAW and was the real death knell of "brotherhood".

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

With government approval they were able to carry less and less of a percentage, balance to cover future pensioners, just as the banks do as far as their percentage of assets to cover what we all save.

The second (generational) fault began in the late 70's when the reality of poor fuel economy and abysmal engineering and build quality finally sunk in.

The companies didn't want to really change and neither did the UAW.
between them they devised a plan that allowed each to put their heads in the sand.

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The auto companies keep doing this and now the time has come to pay up...cover their pensioners and they spent the money, already.

I don't quite see why you say it is the worker's fault.

The most recent generational fault has been off shoring of manufacturing altogether and importing nearly everything. We're all at fault in this one because we all could see the previous two by then.

regieleeroth · 11-03-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDM

So what you are saying is that the American car companies can't afford to pay off the pensions with all the high labor rates, correct? Well then it seems like it's time to lower those rates, correct?
Because the workers, who extort high rates thru force and thuggery, are eating up all the money, making American cars cost so much and lowering their sales.

Oy vey, so it's all the laborer's fault?? Didn't management and their bean counters have ANYTHING to do with signing those contracts?? Was there a gun held to Rick Wagoner's head, with a union thug telling him (in his best Tony Soprano voice), "Sign dis full benefits package, or yooz sleeps wit da fishes." -- Get out of cartoon land, bro. There's two sides to that coin. Force and thuggery, indeed....

GM was/is a bloated corpse not offering/designing/building/marketing in line with the times or fuel prices. And they are still making poor decisions, getting rid of their best affordable line (Saturn), and selling Hummer to China.

EDM · 11-03-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regieleeroth

Oy vey, so it's all the laborer's fault?? Didn't management and their bean counters have ANYTHING to do with signing those contracts?? Was there a gun held to Rick Wagoner's head, with a union thug telling him (in his best Tony Soprano voice), "Sign dis full benefits package, or yooz sleeps wit da fishes." -- Get out of cartoon land, bro. There's two sides to that coin. Force and thuggery, indeed....

What you're not understanding is that the contract they signed has bound them for life. And it's not only the union thugs enforcing that fact, it's the federal government.

user5941 · 11-03-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

At least my facts are straight.... instead of spewing nonsense.

thats why we use ya

RIVETER · 11-03-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanMD

There are three primary (and generational) faults left as the inheritance (or "Legacy") from the good old days of union power.

The first goes back to the 60's when the reality of what the Marshall Plan allowed our former enemies to accomplish began to set in at the same time that the first of the baby boom generation wanted some of those good but then ever declining union jobs.

Combine this with the shift from democratic political alliances and a racist backlash too among the members and just about everyone was happy to give the shaft to whoever stood still long enough to get it... so long as they didn't get it themselves. This applied to all industrial unions not just UAW and was the real death knell of "brotherhood".

The second (generational) fault began in the late 70's when the reality of poor fuel economy and abysmal engineering and build quality finally sunk in.

The companies didn't want to really change and neither did the UAW.
between them they devised a plan that allowed each to put their heads in the sand.

The most recent generational fault has been off shoring of manufacturing altogether and importing nearly everything. We're all at fault in this one because we all could see the previous two by then.

You spoke a lot of words, and a lot of the "facts" are correct. But how can you blame the worker for a company that leaves the U.S. to manufacture a product that is then shipped back to here to be sold? Look in your medicine cabinet and see if you have COLGATE toothpaste. LIFE is full of decisions.

RIVETER

user5941 · 11-03-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDM

What you're not understanding is that the contract they signed has bound them for life. And it's not only the union thugs enforcing that fact, it's the federal government.

Who exactly is the "union thug" you speak of how about a name and face or is this just something you heard on talk radio and are now in here spewing out as fact.

480sparky · 11-03-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rewire

Who exactly is the "union thug" you speak of how about a name and face or is this just something you heard on talk radio and are now in here spewing out as fact.

This is getting hilarious.

The same thing was asked over at this thread, and you never answered that one.

RIVETER · 11-03-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDM

Do you also realize that the average autoworker is an unskilled factory worker? The average auto worker holds a job that he learned in a matter of hours. $60K in a state with low cost of living? What a racket!

Just like minimum wage shelf stockers at the local grocery store.
People show up to work everyday for minimum wage.
$60K doesn't sound excessive for an electrician, especially not in my state. As an IBEW member I make nearly twice that, but I also make my contractor a lot of money using my skills and experience. That's a fact that the average UAW can't claim.

Huh?

To 95% percent of the people who are in the workforce a person who makes $120,000.00 a year is a rich person. If you are as good as you say, you deserve it, but I would advise you to to lay low a little. Getting on a forum and badmouthing those who make so much less than you..You sound like an elitist.

EDM · 11-03-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

But how can you blame the worker for a company that leaves the U.S. to manufacture a product that is then shipped back to here to be sold?

The worker extorting such high rates for their job is what drove the manufacturing out of this country. What other reason is there?

EDM · 11-03-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rewire

Who exactly is the "union thug" you speak of how about a name and face or is this just something you heard on talk radio and are now in here spewing out as fact.

lol, you're too funny.

EDM · 11-03-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

To 95% percent of the people who are in the workforce a person who makes $120,000.00 a year is a rich person. If you are as good as you say, you deserve it, but I would advise you to to lay low a little. Getting on a forum and badmouthing those who make so much less than you..You sound like an elitist.

Explaining facts makes someone an elitist?

It's funny how out of everything I said, you can't refute a single thing that I said. Instead you chose to challenge my character.

I guess you concede?

BryanMD · 11-03-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVETER

To 95% percent of the people who are in the workforce a person who makes $120,000.00 a year is a rich person.

focusing on the dollar figure at all is the larger mistake.
The issue is BUYING POWER.

How many hours do you need to work to afford to buy an X?
(compare that to your grandfathers time and you'll groan).

user5941 · 11-03-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 480sparky

This is getting hilarious.

The same thing was asked over at this thread, and you never answered that one.

It got locked before I could respond it was from an old news letter

user5941 · 11-03-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDM

The worker extorting such high rates for their job is what drove the manufacturing out of this country. What other reason is there?

no NAFTA did

user5941 · 11-03-2009, 04:21 PM

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Originally Posted by EDM

lol, you're too funny.

you non union thug you

RIVETER · 11-03-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDM

Explaining facts makes someone an elitist?

It's funny how out of everything I said, you can't refute a single thing that I said. Instead you chose to challenge my character.

I guess you concede?

No, I admit that you are a CHARACTER.

user5941 · 11-03-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDM

Explaining facts makes someone an elitist?

It's funny how out of everything I said, you can't refute a single thing that I said. Instead you chose to challenge my character.

I guess you concede?

their is a difference between having character and being one...Not sayin just sayin

480sparky · 11-03-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rewire

It got locked before I could respond it was from an old news letter

"An old newsletter".

Wow. How old?

Can you post it now? Or has it reached it's expiration date?

EDM · 11-03-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rewire

no NAFTA did

BS, there is NO reason for a company to outsource work across the globe if they could do it here for a good rate.

You are simply expecting NAFTA to use the government to extort companies into keeping labor here.