rosebud1976

Not all union guys are lazy hoss I just turned out here in vegas in may. We hardly ever ran conduit mostly flex and mc even to the feeders. But what I hear is that it saved the contractor money and we were working. So to say union bros are lazy is a faslehood cause the brothers before us fought for our wages.

gold

........;

BBQ

Now that hurts .......

BBQ

I know and I have worked with some very knowledgeable and professional union members.

Call the assholes the loud minority but it always appeared to me like their actions were all but 'officially' backed by the hall and that really turned me off entirely.

I also like the freedom of being able to cut a 2x4 without hearing some steward cry that I am causing some union members child to starve.

Majack16

I worked for a non union company when I first graduated from high school. My experience with them wasnt to great. It seemed like no one wanted to teach me anything because they were job scared and didnt want anyone to further their knowledge. So that lasted about six months and then I went union. I wanted a good education, benefits, and wages. My experience with the union so far has been great. I graduated from the local 26 apprenticeship program which has one of the best training facilities in the country. My last year as an apprentice I made over 70,000. And thats while missing a month and a half for a surgery. This year as a journeyman I have already made over 65,000. Our yearly package with benefits is over 100,000, based on a 40 hour week. Im fortunate right now because work is good with my company. But from what ive seen its usually the lazy ones or the dead weight that goes to the bench first, not that I haven't seen a few good men go, but they were usually the last. I see alot of people say union electricians are lazy, which there are some (and I'm pretty sure every trade union or non union has them). But for the ones that are lazy it doesn't bother me one bit, because when the time comes they will be headed to the bench, and i will continue to make good wages and benefits, while they collect unemployment. Also for as far as the assholes go, I was always told leave your feelings at home.

brian john

Worked open shop and tested in in lieu of having family members and flunking your way through apprenticeship school. And while that comment about flunking your war through school, during the period I was trying to get in there were several high profile son’s that did exactly that.

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Brian John
Leesburg, VA

brian john

I have run into that in open shops and in the local 26, like everything I think that is a product of insecurity in the individual. In my case when they would not teach me I hit the books and aught myself.


As far as lazy, quality, smart or good leader ship that is abundant in the union and open shop. I do believe (at least in our area) the majority of the really good electricians are union. Local 26 in the last 20-25 years reached out to open shop men and tried to organize the better men. Why wouldn’t you work union when for the most part the better pay and benefits are in the union. And the majority of the BS organized men put up with has been curtailed. BUT there are still a few butt heads, but you have that in any field.

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Brian John
Leesburg, VA

Rick567

I've usually work for small companies and alwas with union and non-union crews doing the different trades, never had to worry about cutting a stud but I can see how that would piss me off if they said I could not do that. Regarding the slugs, most of the time the guys want to do a good job but you as the Forman have to find out what they are good at and keep them supplied with info and materials. Then if they can't keep up let them go.

brian john

I never did an apprenticeship.

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Brian John
Leesburg, VA

brian john

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Brian John
Leesburg, VA

brian john

I have only run into that once, and our foreman worked a deal where the carpenters would leave us alone. We put some electric heat in they carpenters shed and loaned them some heavy duty carts. Problem solved, seems the big mouth carpenters calling the hall left that site.

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Brian John
Leesburg, VA

Roger

Freedom.

Roger

Brother Noah

As far as lazy, quality, smart or good leader ship that is abundant in the union and open shop. I do believe (at least in our area) the majority of the really good electricians are union. Local 26 in the last 20-25 years reached out to open shop men and tried to organize the better men. Why wouldn’t you work union when for the most part the better pay and benefits are in the union. And the majority of the BS organized men put up with has been curtailed. BUT there are still a few butt heads, but you have that in any field.[/quote]

Thank you Brian for a proactive post.It is my opinion that working union you will make a higher income now and for your future, we have more opportunities for education(paid for by the unions) Yes if you have no intentions of traveling you might ride the books for long periods of time because of our referral system where we let the next person in line on the book take that said job(which relies on personal ethics) When I worked nonunion I was able to continue to search for employment while employed (I had two jobs at once) so I had the freedom to search employment without any concern of the others trying to seek employment. I received less income for the hours I plied and little or no H&W and or retirement.
I am a product of nepotism being third generation and I agree that in some cases it caused the unions grief. The animosity I have experienced of those who organize in, usually has been frustration from those who went through the program.I once worked in Las Vegas on a job a newly organized hand tried to bring drill motors and excessive tools on the job. Situations like this could be rectified with patience with our new members(but this is not always the case.)
I have met hard working, educated journeymen and helpers from both sides it only seems to me that more of the union employee's can afford more in life than the nonunion employees.

Loose Neutral

.............

brian john

And if the union and the union contractors are smart (during good times) they will try to hire all the good open shop men, making it harder for open shops to compete.

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Brian John
Leesburg, VA

JTMEYER

1. The union shops here are full of sons of sons of union electricians.
2. I know journeyman that can hardly write, but I'm "unqualified" because I didn't take an algebra course in high school. Even though I scored high marks in all phases of my trade school (including mathmatics).
3. When the union reps came to the trade school, they flat out lied by telling us that there is NO "testing in", everyone starts at the absolute bottom and works their way up. Even though good friends of mine have been offered testing in at journeyman level.
4. Those same union reps offered $10-12 an hour to start to a room full of 30-40 year old men that had all left $20+ an hour jobs to come to school. But of course, if we could all starve our families through a few years, it would all be "worth it". Can you say "we'll work you till your wages go up then sit you on the bench?"
5. Being told while working in the carpenters union, by a BA, "Why would we waste our time defending you from a BS greivance when you come to work everyday and do your job. We need to save our influence to save Jimbob (lazy MF'R) because he got drunk agian and is about to be fired."
6. Same carpenters union, Steward that I helped keep from being fired early in his career, decided to try to kick me out of my job, and back to night shift over BS politics.
7. Freinds being told to "shut up" or escorted out of meetings by large guys in suits wheen they asked tough questions.

I realize that things going on in the carpenters union is a bit off sides, but it all comes back to BS attitude and politics. If I ever go back to any union, which is doubtful, I will be donating my dues to charity just so the crooked b#stards can't have it.

Rick567

The bottom line is if your happy where you are at in this point of your life.

kwired

You were born with a journeyman card in your hand

jrannis

I worked non-union with my Dad for two years when I got out of the Marines. My Dad had been a union electrician from about 1954 until the recession of 1975. I even went to the ABC school due to the fact that the shop had a couple of PW jobs and needed indentured apprentices.

It became quite apparent that the ABC classes were not a very serious course of study. I was ready to begin my third year when my Dad was offered a position with a non-union shop that was starting out with the former partners of a large union shop in the area.

Me Dad thought I should investigate getting into the union apprenticeship program. I filled out the application and went through all of the testing and interviews. All of the heavy hitters that interviewed me knew my Dad, asked about him and told me that they wished him good luck.

At the time, my Dad became the electrical qualifier for the company and the ended up being the largest electrical contractor in the county. This was never held against me during my apprenticeship.

The union apprenticeship was an incredible experience. It was like a military A school as well as what we used to call 5th phase boot camp.
The knowledge and experience I gained from the school and the Journeyman Wiremen that took the time to shared their knowledge and skills with me set me up to make a nice living for me and my family.
As the years have gone by, some of those guys would end up on my jobs when I was a foremen or General Foremen.

The guys I worked with were extremely productive and we always were aware that the non-union guys were bidding on the same jobs but were making $5 or $10 an hour less with no benefits. I was trained to get in and get out and do it right the first time. Yeah, we would get some hall trash once in a while or someone with an attitude or a trouble maker. Those guys would not last and be gone very quick. The guys policed themselves very well.

Bottom line is that I got in the IBEW when my dad was qualifying the largest non-union shop in the county and they took us in by scores not by who knew you. Productivity was very high and trouble makers were dealt with by the job foreman.

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"When a your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"

Mike in Canada

I didn't do an apprenticeship, either. I challenged the ticket based on experience.

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Mike in Canada
Makin' it up as I go along...