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11-21-2009, 09:53 AM
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#41
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Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomps
Salting is extortion.
I've seen 3 or 4 salting drives, and non of them were intended as a means of organizing.
They were just out to get the contractor to spend money defending against unfair labour practices.
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did you ever think that the contractor wouldn't have to defend unfair labor practices if he did not commit them in the first place. Thats like saying cops are extorting peoiple by writing speeding tickets
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11-21-2009, 09:54 AM
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#42
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Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman
i don't think you would know the truth if it sat on your head...just my opinion...
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well opinions and assholes......
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11-21-2009, 09:56 AM
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#43
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Thread Pirate
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 298
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The smart goal would be to show the non-union shops why union labor is better; sort of leading by example.
Unfortunately the two contractors I know who signed a one job deal with IBEW, were both put out of business. One had to scale back and go back to home building the other lost everything.
I think market recovery would work much better by recruiting new contractors, not by getting rid of the other guy, but all my ideas just seem to be capitalist babble to some ears.
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11-21-2009, 10:05 AM
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#44
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el abogado del diablo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: belly of the beast
Posts: 1,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rewire
well opinions and assholes......
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i almost feel obligated to retort with "i'm rubber, you're glue...." but that would just be childish...you have fun and go play...
edit to add - just realized i'm having essentially the same conversation with my 3 yr old...i should just put you two in touch...it would be a good conversation...
Last edited by oldman; 11-21-2009 at 10:18 AM.
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11-21-2009, 10:07 AM
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#45
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el abogado del diablo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: belly of the beast
Posts: 1,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatElvis
The smart goal would be to show the non-union shops why union labor is better; sort of leading by example.
Unfortunately the two contractors I know who signed a one job deal with IBEW, were both put out of business. One had to scale back and go back to home building the other lost everything.
I think market recovery would work much better by recruiting new contractors, not by getting rid of the other guy, but all my ideas just seem to be capitalist babble to some ears.
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one of the largest problems is that the IBEW doesn't give a rats ass about the contractors - other than the favorite sons of the locals....
their attitude is this one goes out of business, another one will take his place and sign my paycheck...doesn't matter...
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11-21-2009, 10:09 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rewire
did you ever think that the contractor wouldn't have to defend unfair labor practices if he did not commit them in the first place. Thats like saying cops are extorting peoiple by writing speeding tickets
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Well, you may have a point if the contractors (in the cases that I am familiar with) had intact commit any labour offences!
You see, the labour relations board isn't a court of law. Facing labour charge, you are guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. The ibew isn't law enforcement and certification applications are not speeding tickets.
In one case, the employee was hired on a short term contract, to do a job that he ( it was quickly evident) had no intention or ability to do. When he was let go at the end of his contract, he filed for wrongful dismissal, claiming that the employer didn't renew his contract because he knew he was ibew. Now, despite a contract, a signed performance review and the fact that the salt lied on his application, the charges were taken to the labour board and the contractor had to defend. After three days of litigation, the charges were dropped. At the employers expense of course.
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11-21-2009, 11:54 AM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatElvis
I think market recovery would work much better by recruiting new contractors, not by getting rid of the other guy, but all my ideas just seem to be capitalist babble to some ears.
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I know a company in Rome GA. They have zero competition. Zero!
Its a small town company with some big customers all over the south. The reason they have no competition is because if any other company comes in their area, they buy that business. You see any business is for sale for the right price, including yours. Thats capitalism at its best. And they purposely get rid of the "other guy". Only the strong survive. Meaning the one with the most money.
Last edited by John Valdes; 11-21-2009 at 12:25 PM.
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11-21-2009, 12:05 PM
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#48
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el abogado del diablo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: belly of the beast
Posts: 1,350
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John, I call BS on the zero competition thing. But even if they did buy the companies, so what? At least they utelize capitalism and the free market. If they can afford to buy out competitors goody for them.
Beats the tactic of strong arming a company to use your labor, then putting them out of business with said labor.
While they may have a similar end result, one gives the selling company money for his efforts...the other takes everything from the guy and leaves him worse off.
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11-21-2009, 12:12 PM
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#49
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Thread Pirate
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Valdes
No disrespect, but are you related to George Bush? Either of them?
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I thought political discussions are not allowed in the forums...
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11-21-2009, 12:24 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman
John, I call BS on the zero competition thing. But even if they did buy the companies, so what? At least they utelize capitalism and the free market. If they can afford to buy out competitors goody for them.
Beats the tactic of strong arming a company to use your labor, then putting them out of business with said labor.
While they may have a similar end result, one gives the selling company money for his efforts...the other takes everything from the guy and leaves him worse off.
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Yes, they buy the competitors and sell the equipment and building. I was a manager for their sister company and had the inside scoop. We sometimes purchased the equipment. They do not have any competition in there immediate area. Now of course there are similar businesses in the south, but only a couple. It is not your everyday business. I really do not want to say what they do, as they would be recognized, I am certain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatElvis
I thought political discussions are not allowed in the forums...
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You are correct. I will edit the post immediately.
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11-21-2009, 12:27 PM
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#51
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Thread Pirate
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 298
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I was just being a smartass...
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11-21-2009, 01:48 PM
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#52
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Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomps
Well, you may have a point if the contractors (in the cases that I am familiar with) had intact commit any labour offences!
You see, the labour relations board isn't a court of law. Facing labour charge, you are guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. The ibew isn't law enforcement and certification applications are not speeding tickets.
In one case, the employee was hired on a short term contract, to do a job that he ( it was quickly evident) had no intention or ability to do. When he was let go at the end of his contract, he filed for wrongful dismissal, claiming that the employer didn't renew his contract because he knew he was ibew. Now, despite a contract, a signed performance review and the fact that the salt lied on his application, the charges were taken to the labour board and the contractor had to defend. After three days of litigation, the charges were dropped. At the employers expense of course.
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was this in Cananda or the US?
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11-21-2009, 04:47 PM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatElvis
The smart goal would be to show the non-union shops why union labor is better; sort of leading by example.
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A-freakin'-men.
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11-21-2009, 05:07 PM
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#54
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Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman
i almost feel obligated to retort with "i'm rubber, you're glue...." but that would just be childish...you have fun and go play...
edit to add - just realized i'm having essentially the same conversation with my 3 yr old...i should just put you two in touch...it would be a good conversation...
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I am just posting this to tell you that I am above posting this. 
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11-21-2009, 05:09 PM
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#55
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Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 947
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Why are non union people always experts on the unions but the guys who are actually in the union no nothing about the unions? 
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11-21-2009, 05:17 PM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rewire
was this in Cananda or the US?
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Canada.
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11-21-2009, 05:21 PM
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#57
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Registered Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomps
Canada.
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The contract thing confused me I have never heard of a unfair labor practice being filed in this situation.
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11-21-2009, 05:44 PM
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rewire
The contract thing confused me I have never heard of a unfair labor practice being filed in this situation.
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I am not sure what you are asking.
How can I help to clear it up for you?
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11-21-2009, 09:54 PM
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#59
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New here - but not new.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SF CA
Posts: 168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman
what is the real goal of salting?
there are people trying everyday to get into the IBEW, but they keep getting denied...there are thousands of men sitting on the bench across the country, because of lack of work....
so, why salt? to turn working non-union guys into non-working union men? to close down non-union shops? to force customers who chose to hire non-union shops to now pay more for a union shop?
seriously, what is the goal?
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Good post - good questions - there are a number of answers, and most of them no one is willing to admit....
Quote:
Originally Posted by rewire
did you ever think that the contractor wouldn't have to defend unfair labor practices if he did not commit them in the first place. Thats like saying cops are extorting peoiple by writing speeding tickets
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Now there salty dog - what did your controllers ask you to do when they sent you out for the job? You were out there to spy - Yes? Taken into the confidence of the boss there by you playing to sensibilities - yes? Given a situation by another salt - you acted as if you were on his side? That in itself is a manipulation - while not patenly illegal - is not genuine in the slightest - and collectively between yourself and the other salt is an act of entrapment... You were there for a purpose - the other guy was there for a purpose... He was there to create data for a complaint - you were there to collect it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rewire
Why are non union people always experts on the unions but the guys who are actually in the union no nothing about the unions? |
In that comment - I'll say most guys are not in the vindictive, underbelly of the beast, and some would not be able to stomack it if they were. Some - apparently like yourself, were taken in to portions of the inner sanctum and like the dark side of the animal nature. Some of us non-union guys see the dark side a few times through our careers and find it disgusting. If more people in the union were invited into the darker reaches of the IBEW they might re-think what they are involved in. JMSO I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror if I did something like that...
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11-22-2009, 08:38 AM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: here
Posts: 7,002
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What's the difference between a union electrician and an aspirin?
Aspirins work.
Just threw that in here as work is not a union word. 
For those of you that take yourself too serious, this is a bit of humor.
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