Union or Non-Union? (only constructive thoughts please) - Page 3 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

gilbequick · 12-17-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frasbee

This sounds like it would be heavily dependent upon the local union, and open shops available in an individual's area. Because it sounds like Union locals themselves can vary just as much as the open shops.

Absolutely. Weigh both of your options and decide what you think will be best for you.

electrician1957 · 12-17-2008, 08:45 PM

If ya wanna be an electrician, go union. If someday you want to be an electrical contractor, go non union.

nick · 12-17-2008, 08:52 PM

I have worked union & non union been to school in both and also in the military as a electrician . On benifits of a non union shop one must work for a good one ,we get free school , pay is helpers $12 start = jr start $20 = leadmen $28.. But we get better pay then union here. We put our bennys in a 401k plan the company matches our investment up to a limit dollar for dollar .we get 5 paid hoildays each year and 3 sick days , 1 week start to 3 weeks paid vacation each year . Full medical/ dental we pay this out of our checks. If your a supertindent or foremen you get a new truck to take home and free gas .Next we get a bonus pool off of each job it can be for a helper just a $ 100 dollars or up to $ 2000 dollars .Now if you run a scope of that job you can walk away with $30,000 in you bonus check. Its all about what that electrician can do big scope of job and also the size of the job . We dont touch a job unless is 20 million plus , 2 to 3 year projects mostly we have 1200 workers and this a privately owned electrical contractor shop, We only do new electrical work only if you want to go to school our company sends us yearly for specialty classes. They pay for our prescription safety glasses ,if your sick hospitalized up to 6 months they give you 60 % of your paycheck for that time off work , what non union or union contractor does that ? we are the 23 largest electrical contractor in the usa if ya need the name look it up ecm magazine .Not putting down union ive been there local 606 orlando but there is more money non union ! no union contractor can come close to what we get in bennys do ya understand that . best to ya

Speedy Petey · 12-17-2008, 09:02 PM

Nick, that is all great....IF that type of thing is for you.

I could NEVER (have) work(ed) for a company like that. Now way I could work for such a large outfit. I don't do politics very well and have a real problem keeping my mouth shut. I also never had a thing for knee pads, if you know what I mean.

I am not slamming your company or the union, but I KNOW this stuff goes on every day in MANY shops, and it is way more prevalent in large(er) companies.

If that type of life and lifestyle is for you then more power to you. I wish you all great success. Just remember, it is NOT for everybody.

How do you keep 1200 guys busy doing (only) new work in today's economy??? Travel, that's how. How far do your guys commute each day?
I have to say, your company is like a mini-union in itself.

nick · 12-17-2008, 09:32 PM

Well i for one dont use knee pads speedy , i just do electrical work and pretty good at what i do so they pay us well , i dont work in the office thats were the knee pads are needed , i work out in the distribution scope of our projects , i like running a crew and the free truck and gas travel they pay me to go anywhere and give me a place to live so no problem i go , we work mostly florida but sometimes out of the country special projects but the moneys good ,and iam used to traveling ex military electrician but if our usa new green work goes bigg time ill quit in a heart beat and go on any government project they come up with , but iam happy now but it doesnt take much we kinda go were the money is paying the most , how do we keep 1200 working have major shops in four different parts of the state most guys dont travel more than 40 miles if that .do good work on time in budget never say no . we do most jobs no one can do in our state so that helps best to ya

Runway · 12-19-2008, 02:37 PM

I carried a Union ticket for 18 years and have worked Open Shop for the last 16 years. Both have their pros and cons - I prefer the Open Shop where your compensation is tied to your contribution, not based on some common denominator. After working my way up through the field and into management, I can tell you that knee pads don't have a d... thing to do with it. That is talk from guys who have never done the necessary work required in the office. A lot of guys think that the office cats just sit around all day reading the sports section and drinking coffee. I can promise you that everything that happens there is necessary and not always easy. Sure, on a rainy or cold day, the office is the better place to be, but I paid a heckuva price (going to school at night, learning computer programs, showing up early in the morning, staying late at night, working on weekends... the list goes on.) The reality for me is I have a great job with a solid company that pays me very well for my efforts. My family has been taken good care of and we will be able to retire well in spite of the Democrats. In our area, 95% of the work is Open Shop. That will tell you a lot about the ability of our economy to still be strong in spite of what is happening around the country.
Whatever side of the labor fence you are on, there is good to be had and bad to be tolerated - but what happens to anyone happens to all of us. We eacgh are responsible for how we react to our circumstances. I firmly believe that the trade is still a good chioce for a young person to get in to.

randomkiller · 12-19-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick

Well do what ya need to do its your pick , i know no one will believe me but here she goes ,ive been union & non union been to school in both and also in the military as a electrician . The non union abc school is not as complete as the union school sorry , but before one can speak on benifits of a non union shop one must work for a good one ,we get free school , pay helpers $12 start jr start $20 leadmen $28 and up its all what you know this is in florida now pay is lower down south !! But we get better pay then union here thats a fact . But heres were we start to change we put our bennys in 401 k plan the company matches our investment up to a limit dollar for dollar .we get 5 paid hoildays a year 3 sick days , 1 to 3 weeks paid vacation each year , full medical/ dental we pay out of check, if your a supertendent you get a truck to take home free gas .next bonus off each job can be for a helper 100 dollars or 2000 dollars ,now if you run a scope of that job you can walk away with $30,000 in you bonus check .its all about what one takes on scope of job and also the size of the job . we dont touch a job unless is 20mil plus , 2 /3 year projects, weve got 1200 workers and this a privately owned electrical contractor shop we just due new electrical work only . if you want to go to school our company sends us yearly for specialty stuff . they will repair or replace any broken batt tool if you have a bad battery its replaced . broken tool replaced free . we have the safest company they gives us free gloves free glasses everyday , they pay for our prescription safety glasses ,if your sick hospital stay up to 6 months they give you 60 % pay what non union contractor does that? were 23 largest electrical contractor in the usa if ya need the name look it up ecm magazine .not putting down union ive been there local 606 orlando but thers more money where iam at and i like it .best to ya

Not to just bust balls but if you proof read what you post first it would be easier for the rest of us to follow and it would make you sound that much more on the ball.

randomkiller · 12-19-2008, 03:04 PM

I have no experience in working non Union. I worked in a (Union) family business before going into the Marines at 17 yrs old. I was asked to get into the hall by a guy that I served with. A handful of us came in together. I have had all very positive experiences being Union. I have met some "old time" Union thugs and just let them shoot their bs and paid little attention. I have never been laid off without planning a vacation around it and coming back to a different EC. And that has been several years ago the last time.
I have always worked in larger shops and commuted at least 10 hours a week. One thing that seems to be prevelent in reading posts here is that Union shops only pay scale. I have never worked for a company that was like that for guys that were steady with them. I know they didn't do extra for guys on a short call but they all did for the regulars. All the guys I work with now are doing better than scale by at least $1.00/hr. We get 5 sick/personal days, many of us get trucks/vans, we get vacation based on time in, and many smaller benefits that make it a great place to work. My supervisor called me at 1030 this am to tell me it was getting bad out and to head home (paid). That ended up with shooting by his house and having lunch with him and his wife. When thinking Union, keep in mind the pay rate is the least you will get, not the max.

nick · 12-19-2008, 06:04 PM

Well i know i should proof read RDK !! sorry guys thats why ill never make it to the office level iam just good at one thing and its not paper work , but i must add one thing i have never had a problem on any job both union or non union we usually all work fine together on any project there is a mix down here in the south union is not strong. But i respect there work they respect our work we share tools and help each other out. I have never seen any problems we even go on fridays to hooters or some near by beer house for a few brews thats union and non union . best to yas

TheRick · 12-20-2008, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomkiller

Not to just bust balls but if you proof read what you post first it would be easier for the rest of us to follow and it would make you sound that much more on the ball.

Whew...I thought it might be just me that couldn't understand that!

TheRick · 12-20-2008, 06:27 AM

I think the biggest thing for ALL of us to remember is that our opinions are based on our own experiences, and none of us can say what is better for someone else. Some of us have had better experiences working union, some non-union. It is very dependant on where you are and what kind of work is available.

There are way to many variables between union and non-union, not to mention from local to local in the union, and between different open shop employers for any of us to make blanket statements one way or another. The best thing to do is talk to people in your area...both union and non-union, and find out what the pros and cons of each are, and then make an informed decision that is best for YOU.

JDG · 12-24-2008, 07:19 PM

I have been going through the union/non-union thing in my mind for quite some time as well. You see I recently obtained my NJ EC License and happen to know a BA from the local near me, he has told me he would probably be able to get me in without going through the apprenticeship program due to the fact that I have my NJ Lic. But I happen to have many friends in the local who are J-man and only work half a year or so every year. I know as others stated this varies greatly by area but around here (Central NJ) it seems that around half of all the members of each local are laid off at any given time in recent years. I am in my early 30's, already own a house and plan on starting a family soon........knowing this kind of stuff is happening to the locals around here kind of steers me away from wanting to join, I won't even get into the politics I think I may face from other union members that find out I walked in as a J-man, I don't know how that would go but I am sure some would be sore......all in all I still battle with making the call......

Golden Arc · 12-24-2008, 10:50 PM

In this part of the country the Union is considered the Devil.

gilbequick · 12-25-2008, 12:06 AM

Tim where abouts are you located?

william1978 · 12-25-2008, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Crimson

In this part of the country the Union is considered the Devil.

Why is it the Devil?

Golden Arc · 12-25-2008, 02:59 AM

I live in upper East Tennessee I dont think there really is any Union around here not that ive ever heard of. If the Union is ever mentioned which is rarely its always in bad manner.

Timster · 12-25-2008, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick

Well i know i should proof read RDK !! sorry guys thats why ill never make it to the office level iam just good at one thing and its not paper work , but i must add one thing i have never had a problem on any job both union or non union we usually all work fine together on any project there is a mix down here in the south union is not strong. But i respect there work they respect our work we share tools and help each other out. I have never seen any problems we even go on fridays to hooters or some near by beer house for a few brews thats union and non union . best to yas

RDK's English is just as bad as yours, so don't worry (seriously).

You both write okay, but this is just the internet; anywhere else and you dudes would be quite suspect.

RDK has no business teaching grammar on this forum, as evidenced by his postings; however, he is really smart in other stuff, and I have learned from him, as I lurk...

No I am not kissing your ass RKD, just telling it like I see it.

Both of you just need to learn about spacing out the paragraphs; then you both should be fine (note how much easier my post is to read with spacings, for example)...

But then, correcting one's writings on the internet is a slippery slope indeed. I have probably made half a dozen mistakes chastising you guys.

randomkiller · 12-25-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timster

RDK's English is just as bad as yours, so don't worry (seriously).

You both write okay, but this is just the internet; anywhere else and you dudes would be quite suspect.

RDK has no business teaching grammar on this forum, as evidenced by his postings; however, he is really smart in other stuff, and I have learned from him, as I lurk...

No I am not kissing your ass RKD, just telling it like I see it.

Both of you just need to learn about spacing out the paragraphs; then you both should be fine (note how much easier my post is to read with spacings, for example)...

But then, correcting one's writings on the internet is a slippery slope indeed. I have probably made half a dozen mistakes chastising you guys.

YA THINK !

I just have a thing about cohesive coherent sentences.

bobelectric · 12-25-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Crimson

I live in upper East Tennessee I dont think there really is any Union around here not that ive ever heard of. If the Union is ever mentioned which is rarely its always in bad manner.

Merry Christmas.

That's what is wrong with the coal mining industry in Kentucky/Tennesee area,"If you Don't like the working conditions,go home."

ACB · 12-26-2008, 07:22 PM

I have never been part of a union, and I am happy with what I have, I have considered and still toss it around applying at OPG (ontario power generation) as the Bruce NuKe facility is suposidley getting a couple new nukes (its going through the political hoops right now) And I would love to move to that part of the province. The pay and benifits are awsome and of course its union, but it might be a nice way to finish out the last 13 to 15 years before I want to retire, get a partial pension along with what I have put away. but who knows. I like being my own boss, and I am well established as a business.